Do We Really Need Another Book on Amillennialism?

Matthew, this isn’t the first time Storm’s spoke on this issue. I have heard him out.

You may be content to have a lowest common denominator eschatology, but I am not.

Finally, if you mean our position is not an issue that would keep a person from being saved, then sure, it isn’t fundamental. If however your statement is more than that, I would disagree. All right thinking Christians are premillennial.

And then some wonder why many of the brightest among young fundamentalists are disenchanted? Hmmm.

[G. N. Barkman]

And then some wonder why many of the brightest among young fundamentalists are disenchanted? Hmmm.

As a former dispensationalist and with no bone to pick with them, and among whom I have friends, I do think you are right except it’s not only the brightest and young. When we planted a church a couple years ago we were committed to not enshrine a detailed eschatological position. On our leadership we’ve had differences from progressive dispensationalism, historic premil, and amil. We don’t hide the differences nor magnify them. And we’ve had dispensationalists as guest speakers.

I think churches have a right to make dispensationalism or other views an issue and for established churches it would be difficult to change. I would not recommend it to newly planted churches.

Here’s what we adopted as a church. That is, we believe the Scriptures clearly teach and what has been clearly affirmed throughout the ages is that Jesus returns to establish His kingdom. Whether there is a 1000 year period before the eternal kingdom, one or two phases, restoration of Israel and in what way, these things are interesting and important to discuss. We will probably all be surprised in some way at how God works it out. For that reason I would not separate over biblical eschatology with which all right thinking Christians agree.

“God’s gospel will be brought to fulfillment by the Lord Himself at the end of this age: We believe in the personal and glorious coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with His holy angels, when He will fully establish His kingdom and exercise His role as Judge of all. This coming of Christ, at a time known only to God, requires constant expectancy and should motivate the believer to godly living, sacrificial service, and energetic mission. This is our blessed hope (Matt. 25:31; Mark 8:38; 14:62; Acts 1:6-8; 1 Thess. 4:16-17; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Titus 2:13; Jude 14-15; Rev. 1:7).

Oh my fault, I meant to do more than paraphrase the quote. Here it is:

“But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then he built, adorned, and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.”

Justin Martyr, AD 140

So yeah, Barkman, nothing will disenchant young people more than one of the earliest church father on eschatology. I didn’t know they were so petty and miserable. Emo-fundy is a new subculture to be on the look out for I guess.

James,

Justin Martyr also states that those who think differently than his historical pre-mil position still belong to “the pure and pious faith.” He might have thought he was right minded on this issue, but had no qualms about them belonging to “the pure and pious faith.” He also makes the point that there were many of them too, just as there were probably many Christians who believed in a 1000 year reign.

“I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion (temporal 1000 year reign), and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.” (Dialogue with Trypho,)

It’s also interesting to note that early church chiliasm was significantly different from modern dispensational premillennialism. For one thing, it tended to be connected to a denial of the soul’s immediate ascent to God. Instead, the millennial period is viewed as a training ground for souls, purifying them so that they will be able to experience the beatific vision. (Basically, a sort of purgatory.) Irenaeus makes this the explicit hinge of his premillennialism.

A full analysis of the connection between individual eschatology and millennial views can be found in Regnum Caelorum by Charles Hill. A survey of early Christian eschatology that goes far beyond the dualistic historiography of the 19th century is Brian Daley, Hope of the Early Church.

Joel, where have I said that amills were outside of Christianity?

James,

I never accused you of saying that they were outside of Christianity. I added this quote especially because Justin Martyr uses the adjectives pure and pious to describe the faith of these non pre-millennialists, which is the same as those who are pre-millennial. Maybe because he demonstrated that one can embrace a different view of eschatology, stating that another position is wrong, but yet acknowledge that they aren’t some second class Christian, but rather make the claim that they also belong to the pure and pious faith.

Again, not disputed. Storms can make up near idiotic reasons to not be premill and be lauded. There is something deeply wrong with Christianity when entire portions of Scripture are treated as second class. In addition, eschatology is in Scripture so that we purify ourselves and eagerly anticipate the Lord’s return in addition to being ready for coming persecution. When people downplay its significance, they do themselves, and their people an extreme disservice. So yes, amills can be saved. To their own harm, they cannot adequately interpret Scripture. There is a hole in their theology where eschatology should be.

Btw, when the “fundamentalists” where discussing what the fundamentals were, the more presbyterian flavor opted to only mention Christ’s return. The nonpresbos actually included premillennialism as a fundamental.

Hi James, I like your arguments but could you add a little more sweetness and gentleness to the words you use. It would make what you say far more palatable both to those who agree and those who disagree with your views. I find myself at times rooting for you then I am hit by what comes across as harshness.