Tina Anderson, Chuck Phelps Take Stand in Willis Trial

Alex, while I completely agree with Pastor Wesh’s sentiments, my particular post was argumentative and unhelpful and for that I apologize.

I accept the acknowledgment. Thank you.

[Alex Guggenheim]

[Jmeyering]

[Susan R] Leah is talking about a particular case, and Alex is talking legal words and phrases and meanings in general. This is not going to be productive unless folks are addressing what the other is actually saying.

I agree. I think if any are interested in debating that interesting facet of the legal system there are plenty of legal forums where that would be better suited. This thread is devoted to this SPECIFIC case and verdict and as Jay C. intimated in post #92 right after the verdict was handed down we should let the jury’s decision to stand as truth here.

So a legal rendering is being discussed but we shouldn’t discuss legal language? Am I reading this right? Am I in the Twilight Zone?

Lets be honest here, the topic of this thread has not been on the “legal rendering” if you look you will see that the topic of discussion was Pastor Phelps responsibility/actions in all of this, not whether we believe Tina. Time for that has long past and everyone has generally concluded that.

So yes IMO discussion regarding who we should believe and whether the jury was correct are better fit somewhere else.

Well okay, that is your opinion, fine. Of course it is my opinion that statements such as the one I quoted and addressed required an inclusion of legal terms and meanings and their relationship to reality and facts as we state them. So we disagree.

So now go tell Leah you think she shouldn’t be asking me my opinion of the jury’s decisions since it doesn’t fit with your view of the thread. LOL.

[Greg Long]

[pastorwesh] Leah,

I wish you would not encourage Alex. While you may want to spend 12 hours on an International-Multi-Continential Flight, I prefer the Concord Jet version.

Alex, you could spare all of us your lengthy response by realizing that not many of us care about your splitting of hairs, much less how you view someone who asserts that the questions of the truthfullness of what happened is now the wrong question to ask in light of the jury’s verdict.

Quite frankly, I have read few posts that come across as more prideful and more full of “self” than your posts, Alex. In the posts of yours that I have read over the past year, you seem to be quick to correct, usually in a tone that comes across as condescending. My exhortation to you, brother, is to examine the tone and content of your posts, and work to be “clothed with humility”.

By the way, I’m sure there are posts of mine that could have been better worded…if you notice areas that I can improve in the future, I hope that you will help to “sharpen” my iron as well. :o)

Pastor Wesh, I completely agree.

Moderators, are you actually going to allow this unwarranted attack on Alex’s character?

I am in law school, and what Alex said was perfectly spot on. Leah said we must assume that Ernest Willis was guilty because he was convicted by a jury. I don’t know if Ernest Willis forced Tina to have sex with him or not. He was convicted by a jury that heard a lot of evidence that I did not, so if he was not guilty, he can use other legal channels to challenge the verdict. I do know what he did was wrong, REGARDLESS.

It seems to me that some of you are using bully tactics rather than addressing the points Alex actually made. There is no reason why your conversation with him has to be adversarial. I doubt he is actually on a different side than you.

[Rev Karl] With respect, humility, and all due deference to those Godly ones who have expressed some variation of the the thought “I’m glad this is over,” really, it’s not.

Gee, I guess it really wasn’t over… :-)

What is interesting is that the argument before the trial was “wait until the trial, we don’t really know anything yet.” Now that the trial is over, the argument seems to be, “Well the trial doesn’t really prove anything.” I understand the legal stuff, but it still does seem that we are going around in circles.

Well, now that I’ve fixed supper, eaten it with my family, and done a load of laundry, I can get back to the really important issues of the day. Which is currently “Why did the comments attempting to redirect Alex’s comments result in this thread topic being about Alex?”

Don’t answer that.

The topic is the Anderson vs Willis trial and verdict. Let’s save the existentialism for another thread, and the Guggenheim Intervention for private messages.

Now that at least one of the mods has stopped goofing off by spending time with their family, this thread will be watched for further off topic comments and edited if absolutely necessary.

End of moderator note.

[Bob Nutzhorn] What is interesting is that the argument before the trial was “wait until the trial, we don’t really know anything yet.” Now that the trial is over, the argument seems to be, “Well the trial doesn’t really prove anything.” I understand the legal stuff, but it still does seem that we are going around in circles.

Bob,

I was one of those who advocated for refrain until the trial was actually over, and now that it is over, I think we should discuss the ramifications of the trial, the decisions that Pastor Phelps made, and any other issues relevant to the reality of the case. I for one do not agree that “the trial didn’t prove anything.” I think the trial had far-reaching ramifications.

One issue I’m confused about is the entrance of David Gibbs III to argue for Phelps’ notes to be kept private. Does anyone care to comment on why it would have been the right thing for Phelps to want his notes kept private. Another question I have is, “Is anyone planning to attend the FBFI Conference scheduled for June 14th-16th? If so, do you particularly plan to attend Phelp’s 9:45am workshop?”

[pastorwesh]

[Bob Nutzhorn] What is interesting is that the argument before the trial was “wait until the trial, we don’t really know anything yet.” Now that the trial is over, the argument seems to be, “Well the trial doesn’t really prove anything.” I understand the legal stuff, but it still does seem that we are going around in circles.

Bob,

I was one of those who advocated for refrain until the trial was actually over, and now that it is over, I think we should discuss the ramifications of the trial, the decisions that Pastor Phelps made, and any other issues relevant to the reality of the case. I for one do not agree that “the trial didn’t prove anything.” I think the trial had far-reaching ramifications.

One issue I’m confused about is the entrance of David Gibbs III to argue for Phelps’ notes to be kept private. Does anyone care to comment on why it would have been the right thing for Phelps to want his notes kept private. Another question I have is, “Is anyone planning to attend the FBFI Conference scheduled for June 14th-16th? If so, do you particularly plan to attend Phelp’s 9:45am workshop?”

PW, you bring up some excellent points. When you say that the trial has far reaching ramifications, I agree and think you are spot on. Your posts makes a number of good points.

Linda Phelps is also scheduled to speak at the conference you reference. http://www.fbfi.org/images/stories/tri-fold_OUTSIDE_merged-2.pdf

…..of actual events to assess guilt, even when the facts are so glaring. It makes me wonder about the motives.

With respect to Ernie Willis. It is possible for juries to get it wrong, but the basic facts of this case were pretty obvious from the start. Willis himself pleaded guilty to the charge of statutory rape. No one is hear arguing that Willis isn’t guilty. So no, we don’t need a video.

But this whole discussion was NEVER about that.

And that’s why those who joined SI to post on this topic alone keep beating the drum.

The discussion is not about Tina, the posters for the most part could care less about her. They have bigger fish to fry.

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