Tina Anderson, Chuck Phelps Take Stand in Willis Trial

The basic parts of the ruling were that privilege was ignored when Phelps sent the notes to Fuller and also Chuck’s website (drchuckphelps.com) had released information contained within the notes. The website was a matter of lengthy discussion during that part of the hearing.

This is why attorneys will recommend strongly to their clients to put a lid on it until the case is over. Anything information you share, not to mention publish, is fair game.

When Phelps contacted the Concord PD, what if they asked him “How old is the girl?”
“She’s 16.”
That could explain the PD’s lack of urgency.

I know my testimony as stated on Bob Bixby’s blog will remove me from being a credible witness in the minds of some readers/posters. I did think from my presence in the courtroom all week I had some things to which I could add factual information after reading the posts.

I want to represent myself honestly and fairly to you all. I understand that some of you may have questions about my veracity and want to assure you that your questions are okay with me. Please feel free to ask anything that you think may help you have the clearest perspective of the facts and my support for Tina.

I would like to add that though my own personal faith has undergone challenges because of my experiences and those of my siblings, I have clung desperately to what I knew to be truth from the Bible. I know for a fact that when my faith wasn’t strong enough God was holding me. Like Tina, I believe that even the things I experienced at the hands of abusive, harsh church leaders as a child, adolescent and young adult were meant for evil; I believe God has used them for good and for His glory. I’m grateful for His steadfast love, mercy and grace. I make no excuses for any of my imperfect decisions—my journey has had its rough bumps, and by the grace of God I am where I am today as a woman, wife and mom.

I believe that the church in general can do better with cases like this (it is not a problem unique to one denomination). I’d like those that are committed to the foundational doctrines that I believe and love to lead the way in doing better. I believe that hidden sin hurts the cause of the Gospel more than the world finding out about our imperfect decisions. Repentance and restoration will speak volumes to the watching world and unbelievers. I would like to see some public apologies to Tina, but that isn’t my action to take. Only those directly involved can make that decision. Greg and one other apologized for the way thoughts were worded on Bob Bixby’s blog. That was heart-warming for those watching/reading. I understand the Holy Spirit doesn’t need me—He is pretty good at His own work.

Some with closer associations to Chuck and Trinity will have to make decisions about how they will handle their own situation. I offer no recommendations or opinion on the matter.

Laurie Moody

[Ron Bean] When Phelps contacted the Concord PD, what if they asked him “How old is the girl?”
“She’s 16.”
That could explain the PD’s lack of urgency.

So when, in the timeline of all of this, was the incident reported? Soon after it happened, or not until she found out she was pregnant- and how far into term was she?

If Pastor Phelps said she was 16, but that she had become pregnant as a result of the assault, it would still be required for the police to ask how old she was at the time that she was raped, and not just “How old is she now?”

Police and CPS workers are trained to handle these cases. They have a detailed list of questions they are to ask anyone who calls or comes in with a report. It’s not like ordering fast food at the drive thru window. Unless they were bumbling idiots, they would have obtained enough information from the initial phone call to figure out that she was underage.

@ Laurie- it’s sometimes difficult to be passionate and remain credible. I appreciate your concern that justice be done, and for your careful attitude here.

Laurie, I do appreciate your even handedness in your communication here. Especially your attitude that people inclined to see things differently than you do may still be keenly interested in the truth.

Susan, I think Tina was 4 months along when Phelps found out and she was 16 at the time Phelps found out. 15 when she was raped. If Phelps reported that a 16 year old in his church has consensual sex with a 38 or 39 year old man, the police would view it very differently than if he had said she was a 15 year old rape victim or rape victim of any age for that matter. Chuck maintains that Tina was in an ongoing consensual relationship with a married man—Ernie Willis on his website and it is my understanding that he also testified in court that he thought it was consensual. In addition, her mother told the police that she did not want to talk. So if the police thought she was a 16 year old having consensual sex, there really wasn’t much for them to follow up on since she was technically of age.

[Leah Hayes] Susan, I think Tina was 4 months along when Phelps found out and she was 16 at the time Phelps found out. 15 when she was raped. If Phelps reported that a 16 year old in his church has consensual sex with a 38 or 39 year old man, the police would view it very differently than if he had said she was a 15 year old rape victim or rape victim of any age for that matter. Chuck maintains that Tina was in an ongoing consensual relationship with a married man—Ernie Willis on his website and it is my understanding that he also testified in court that he thought it was consensual. In addition, her mother told the police that she did not want to talk. So if the police thought she was a 16 year old having consensual sex, there really wasn’t much for them to follow up on since she was technically of age.

Then he’d be guilty of providing false information. The crime was at minimum sexual contact with a minor, so if he reported it as if she was 16 at the time of the sexual contact, they could go after him for that, I would think. It would appear to be an intentional effort to mislead.

I’m still stuck with the idea that any law enforcement officer or CPS worker who abides by their reporting policies is going to ask enough questions during the initial report to uncover the true situation. I know too many cops and social workers who are extremely professional and thorough to believe that it’s SOP to just take someone’s vague statements and file it under “No Big Deal”. Maybe the Concord PD was having a bad hair day.

@Laurie - Thank your for your observations. Did Phelps try to talk to Tina at all in the courtroom - even to greet her? I know you may not have seen everything that transpired, but it would be interesting to know if he reached out to her at all. If so, how did she respond?

Laurie,
Your humbleness here has been great. The information has been even better. Thank you for moving this forward for us to think through.

[rdl] @Laurie - Thank your for your observations. Did Phelps try to talk to Tina at all in the courtroom - even to greet her? I know you may not have seen everything that transpired, but it would be interesting to know if he reached out to her at all. If so, how did she respond?

I can answer this question with an unequivocal no. I was with her the entire time Chuck Phelps was on the stand. He did not approach her, speak to her or even make eye contact with her.

[Ron Bean] When Phelps contacted the Concord PD, what if they asked him “How old is the girl?”
“She’s 16.”
That could explain the PD’s lack of urgency.

Ron, this was not addressed at trial. I think the best explanation is a consideration of all the testimony together: Phelps, Leaf and Gagnon, that I discussed here: http://sharperiron.org/comment/30507#comment-30507

I’ve read that some have wondered the same thing as you because at drchuckphelps.com the age given was 16. Given what was said at trial, I am doubtful it is true. Given Gagnon’s own testimony, he seemed pretty clear that he tabled it due to lack of information about Tina’s whereabouts.

[Susan R] Then he’d be guilty of providing false information. The crime was at minimum sexual contact with a minor, so if he reported it as if she was 16 at the time of the sexual contact, they could go after him for that, I would think. It would appear to be an intentional effort to mislead. .

Not technically Susan. Tina’s mother and Phelps didn’t go out of their way to provide information. If asked how old the girl was, he could have truthfully said 16 because at the moment she was 16 and he could have said, “Well, they asked me how old she was, not how old she was when it happened. Those are two different questions and I answered how old she was at the moment they asked me how old she was.” Such an action would be morally wrong, but could technically be correct. However, as Laurie states above it was her impression from testimony that the reported age was not the reason the investigation stop, but rather because the police department could not find her.

As you stated earlier there were lots of adults playing hot potato with Tina. As a result of that she was greatly hurt and justice delayed for many years.

I am still wondering if anyone will revisit my post above. Does Chuck Phelps meet the biblical guidelines to be a pastor as outlined in Timothy? And if not will pastors who are members of organizations in which Chuck is a member of leader publicly call for him to step down? Are the principles in Timothy worth taking a stand on?

Much has been said and frankly I’ve heard all I care to hear about whether this was consensual or forced. The jury found Willis guilty of rape so why do some continue to insist that it may have been consensual? He was found guilty. He had a fair trial and in my mind, that removes any reasonable doubt that this was forced rape. Having said that though, lets say just for sake of argument that it was consensual sex and Tina threw herself at Willis, here’s my question. Why does that matter? When a 39 year old man has sex with a 15 year old girl that is statutory rape. A man nearly 40 years old should have the judgment not to be involved with a teenage girl and I don’t view consensual sex with an underage minor as somehow “less evil” than forced rape. Can you tell me when he was having her over to his house, teaching her to drive, he didn’t have ulterior motives? He knew exactly what he was doing. If I hear one more person try to suggest that consenual sex with an underage minor is somehow not as bad, I’m going to throw up. I hope they throw the book at Willis.

No one here at SI is insisting that there was consent in this case, or that consensual sex with a minor is ‘not as bad’. It would be more productive to discuss the topics that have been presented here than argue points being proposed elsewhere, IMO.