Why We Are in Ukraine

“Christopher Layne and Benjamin Schwarz… have now penned an article of extraordinary length questioning America’s role in the war….It is tremendous in length but that is about it.” - Persuasion

Discussion

...to me is how so many "conservative thinkers" have more or less parroted Kremlin propaganda, a circumstance that would have been unthinkable back in the 1980s--a time that a large portion of these "conservative thinkers" ought to remember clearly. It's not the firmest logic, but there was a rule of thumb back in the day that if you were saying the same thing as Pravda (Russian), Izvestia, Tass, or other state controlled media outlets from Moscow were saying, you'd do well to check your evidence and logic, because those outlets were very consistently far from the truth.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Yep!

We are living in a weird Republican world. They support Russian aggression into their neighbors, they support the attack of businesses, they support the weaponizing of the Justice Department....

At least we now know that we're not there defending Democracy as we've been told innumerable times.

I'm not sure I've heard Tucker rooting for Russia.

I have heard him criticize Russia for invading Ukraine. I have heard him decry the atrocities committed against Ukrainian citizens.

I have heard him criticize American politicians for being more invested in pursuing war than preventing said atrocities.

I have also heard him criticize Zelensky for being the authoritarian that he is.

There is a little fact in the mix regarding Zelensky's supposedly authoritarian tendencies; when he limits the importation of Russian language books and the operation of the Russian Orthodox church, what he's really doing is limiting the operation of the FSB (the new KGB) in Ukraine. It is my opinion that most of the corruption in Ukraine (e.g. Viktor Yanukovych) is in fact orchestrated from Moscow for the purpose of preventing former vassal states from achieving real independence.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Hypothetically, let's say Zelensky decides to suspend national elections until the war is over. Would that qualify him as authoritarian?

Hypothetically, of course.

.....it would be more productive, Kenneth, if you dealt with the question of whether Moscow was orchestrating the behavior of the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine with the help of the FSB. Keep in mind that when Patriarch Kyrill, the current leader of that church, was in Switzerland, he was a KGB asset.

We like to see things in our neat little categories of "good" and "bad", "free" and "not free", and we forget so quickly how pervasively the old Soviet state and the KGB invaded key Russian institutions to control the people.Therefore it is my view that we need to cut Ukraine some slack as they take steps to extricate themselves from the clutches of the Russian FSB. They've made some good steps, as I don't think Zelensky is still alive because the FSB has free rein in Ukraine--nor is the Ukrainian army still standing against Russia's because the FSB has free rein.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Bert, it appears you may have missed the intended sarcasm. Because, of course, it's not a hypothetical.

Zelensky has indeed suspended elections for the time being. In addition to exercising control over the media. Tell us how these not characteristic of an authoritarian.

So, we are not defending democracy. Zelensky has suspended it.

.....you should have consulted the Ukrainian Constitution, which does not allow for elections during periods of martial law. Zelensky merely implemented the prima facie meaning of the Constitution.

We are indeed defending the Republic of Ukraine, and I am glad for it.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.