Why Certain Types of Music Make Our Brains Sing, and Others Don’t

[Kevin Miller]

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

Can you show any where on any thread where I have said that all kinds of music are acceptable? I’ve never made that claim.

I would argue that it was at least implied in how you argued against the teaching of 1 Cor. 10:23 that not all things edify. If you did not believe that all kinds of music edify and are therefore acceptable to God, you had plenty of opportunity to make that view clear.

The edification factor is only one possible reason why God might not accept some music, and in my mind, it’s not that likely that “lack of edification” would be the reason God rejects whatever it is that He rejects. His rejection would be based on something a lot stronger than that.

Your notion that others things are “a lot stronger” than edification is your exalting your own reasoning above divine revelation. God profoundly emphasizes the necessity that something must be edifying if it is to be used acceptably in corporate worship. Even the fully authentic divinely given gift of speaking in tongues could not be used in corporate worship if there was not an interpreter so that all would be edified.

Whether or not something edifies is biblically an all-important consideration. God says that even for all the things that are lawful not all things edify. You in effect claim that what God says is not true for all kinds of instrumental music and hold that all kinds of instrumental music edify. You have to prove that is true—begging that vitally important question is not legitimate.

So are you claiming that whether music edifies is MORE important than ANY other reason why God might reject a kind of music? Is it more important than any possible occult connection that you believe exists? I didn’t see my explanation that some objections are stronger to be exalting my own wisdom. I was just explaining something that I understand to be true FROM divine revelation. God gives a number of different reasons in the Bible for why He rejects a number of different things, and “lack of edification” is certainly one possible one, which I acknowledged, but I don’t understand that reason to be the all important one in the Bible.

[RajeshG]

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

Can you show any where on any thread where I have said that all kinds of music are acceptable? I’ve never made that claim.

I would argue that it was at least implied in how you argued against the teaching of 1 Cor. 10:23 that not all things edify. If you did not believe that all kinds of music edify and are therefore acceptable to God, you had plenty of opportunity to make that view clear.

The edification factor is only one possible reason why God might not accept some music, and in my mind, it’s not that likely that “lack of edification” would be the reason God rejects whatever it is that He rejects. His rejection would be based on something a lot stronger than that.

Your notion that others things are “a lot stronger” than edification is your exalting your own reasoning above divine revelation. God profoundly emphasizes the necessity that something must be edifying if it is to be used acceptably in corporate worship. Even the fully authentic divinely given gift of speaking in tongues could not be used in corporate worship if there was not an interpreter so that all would be edified.

Whether or not something edifies is biblically an all-important consideration. God says that even for all the things that are lawful not all things edify. You in effect claim that what God says is not true for all kinds of instrumental music and hold that all kinds of instrumental music edify. You have to prove that is true—begging that vitally important question is not legitimate.

So are you claiming that whether music edifies is MORE important than ANY other reason why God might reject a kind of music? Is it more important than any possible occult connection that you believe exists? I didn’t see my explanation that some objections are stronger to be exalting my own wisdom. I was just explaining something that I understand to be true FROM divine revelation. God gives a number of different reasons in the Bible for why He rejects a number of different things, and “lack of edification” is certainly one possible one, which I acknowledged, but I don’t understand that reason to be the all important one in the Bible.

Obviously, the criterion of whether something edifies only applies to those things that are definitively known to be lawful. We are forbidden from making any use of anything that has possible connections to the occult so discussing whether such things edify is automatically precluded.

[RajeshG]

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

Yes, God does not want us to have any fellowship with occultists. That’s why we should even steer clear of relying on any demonic information passed on by these people who serve the father of lies. It’s true that they can sometimes be accurate, but we shouldn’t seek out their demonic “wisdom” when God warns us to have nothing to do with them.

No, that’s not what having fellowship with occultists means. Scripture teaches us that there fully authentic professional occultists who therefore have transmitted and do transmit that information to others who want to be fully authentic professional occultists themselves.

Making proper use of that information that is directly from them about their wicked occult practices is not having fellowship with them, and it is not seeking “out their demonic ‘wisdom’ when God warns us to have nothing to do with them.”

Ah, so now we have to determine “proper” use of information from demonically influenced occultists who serve the father of lies. I’ve been saying much the same all along. I’ve been saying we have to use discernment in believing what they say. That’s the ONLY way that we CAN make proper use of it. Do you claim that we always have to believe everything an occultist transmits?

You have misunderstood what I mean by “proper.” By proper, I mean that the information is used as judiciously and discreetly as possible with as little exposure to the material as possible. It means not experiencing, sampling, or directly viewing or listening to anything for the supposed purpose of using “discernment in believing what they say.”

It is impossible to use discernment in detecting whether a potion, spell, enchantment, seance, trance, etc. involves the true activity of demons. Are you going to say that it is fake unless you see, hear, smell, taste, or feel demons being present and active? How are you going to know whether demons are present when you try out what the enchantment says must be done? Are you going to use some kind of supposed “demon-meters” from some supposedly authentic source like Snopes.com to detect whether something authentically supernatural is actually taking place or not? What exactly are you going to do to evaluate supernatural activities of evil supernatural beings when the Bible does not give you any information about those particular occult activities and you as a human do not have any abilities to perceive what is going on in the spirit realm?

[Kevin Miller]

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

Can you show any where on any thread where I have said that all kinds of music are acceptable? I’ve never made that claim.

I would argue that it was at least implied in how you argued against the teaching of 1 Cor. 10:23 that not all things edify. If you did not believe that all kinds of music edify and are therefore acceptable to God, you had plenty of opportunity to make that view clear.

The edification factor is only one possible reason why God might not accept some music, and in my mind, it’s not that likely that “lack of edification” would be the reason God rejects whatever it is that He rejects. His rejection would be based on something a lot stronger than that.

Your notion that others things are “a lot stronger” than edification is your exalting your own reasoning above divine revelation. God profoundly emphasizes the necessity that something must be edifying if it is to be used acceptably in corporate worship. Even the fully authentic divinely given gift of speaking in tongues could not be used in corporate worship if there was not an interpreter so that all would be edified.

Whether or not something edifies is biblically an all-important consideration. God says that even for all the things that are lawful not all things edify. You in effect claim that what God says is not true for all kinds of instrumental music and hold that all kinds of instrumental music edify. You have to prove that is true—begging that vitally important question is not legitimate.

So are you claiming that whether music edifies is MORE important than ANY other reason why God might reject a kind of music? Is it more important than any possible occult connection that you believe exists? I didn’t see my explanation that some objections are stronger to be exalting my own wisdom. I was just explaining something that I understand to be true FROM divine revelation. God gives a number of different reasons in the Bible for why He rejects a number of different things, and “lack of edification” is certainly one possible one, which I acknowledged, but I don’t understand that reason to be the all important one in the Bible.

Obviously, the criterion of whether something edifies only applies to those things that are definitively known to be lawful. We are forbidden from making any use of anything that has possible connections to the occult so discussing whether such things edify is automatically precluded.

So why did you argue with me when I said that God would have stronger reasons to reject something than “lack of edification”? You called that idea “exalting your own reasoning above divine revelation.” Are you just objecting to things I say for the sake of arguing?

[Kevin Miller]

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

Yes, God does not want us to have any fellowship with occultists. That’s why we should even steer clear of relying on any demonic information passed on by these people who serve the father of lies. It’s true that they can sometimes be accurate, but we shouldn’t seek out their demonic “wisdom” when God warns us to have nothing to do with them.

No, that’s not what having fellowship with occultists means. Scripture teaches us that there fully authentic professional occultists who therefore have transmitted and do transmit that information to others who want to be fully authentic professional occultists themselves.

Making proper use of that information that is directly from them about their wicked occult practices is not having fellowship with them, and it is not seeking “out their demonic ‘wisdom’ when God warns us to have nothing to do with them.”

Ah, so now we have to determine “proper” use of information from demonically influenced occultists who serve the father of lies. I’ve been saying much the same all along. I’ve been saying we have to use discernment in believing what they say. That’s the ONLY way that we CAN make proper use of it. Do you claim that we always have to believe everything an occultist transmits?

You have misunderstood what I mean by “proper.” By proper, I mean that the information is used as judiciously and discreetly as possible with as little exposure to the material as possible. It means not experiencing, sampling, or directly viewing or listening to anything for the supposed purpose of using “discernment in believing what they say.”

It is impossible to use discernment in detecting whether a potion, spell, enchantment, seance, trance, etc. involves the true activity of demons. Are you going to say that it is fake unless you see, hear, smell, taste, or feel demons being present and active? How are you going to know whether demons are present when you try out what the enchantment says must be done? Are you going to use some kind of supposed “demon-meters” from some supposedly authentic source like Snopes.com to detect whether something authentically supernatural is actually taking place or not? What exactly are you going to do to evaluate supernatural activities of evil supernatural beings when the Bible does not give you any information about those particular occult activities and you as a human do not have any abilities to perceive what is going on in the spirit realm?

Since you say it is impossible to use discernment, then you ARE in effect saying that we DO have to believe everything an occultist says at all times.

[RajeshG]

Kevin Miller wrote:

So why did you argue with me when I said that God would have stronger reasons to reject something than “lack of edification”? You called that idea “exalting your own reasoning above divine revelation.” Are you just objecting to things I say for the sake of arguing?

No, I do not view the one as “stronger” than the other. Those are different kinds of criteria.

[Kevin Miller]

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

So why did you argue with me when I said that God would have stronger reasons to reject something than “lack of edification”? You called that idea “exalting your own reasoning above divine revelation.” Are you just objecting to things I say for the sake of arguing?

No, I do not view the one as “stronger” than the other. Those are different kinds of criteria.

I’d say that between “kinds of criteria,” some kinds ARE stronger than others. If God rejects something because it is sinful, that IS a stronger objection than rejecting it because it is lawful but not edifying. Wouldn’t you agree with that?

[RajeshG]

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

Yes, God does not want us to have any fellowship with occultists. That’s why we should even steer clear of relying on any demonic information passed on by these people who serve the father of lies. It’s true that they can sometimes be accurate, but we shouldn’t seek out their demonic “wisdom” when God warns us to have nothing to do with them.

No, that’s not what having fellowship with occultists means. Scripture teaches us that there fully authentic professional occultists who therefore have transmitted and do transmit that information to others who want to be fully authentic professional occultists themselves.

Making proper use of that information that is directly from them about their wicked occult practices is not having fellowship with them, and it is not seeking “out their demonic ‘wisdom’ when God warns us to have nothing to do with them.”

Ah, so now we have to determine “proper” use of information from demonically influenced occultists who serve the father of lies. I’ve been saying much the same all along. I’ve been saying we have to use discernment in believing what they say. That’s the ONLY way that we CAN make proper use of it. Do you claim that we always have to believe everything an occultist transmits?

You have misunderstood what I mean by “proper.” By proper, I mean that the information is used as judiciously and discreetly as possible with as little exposure to the material as possible. It means not experiencing, sampling, or directly viewing or listening to anything for the supposed purpose of using “discernment in believing what they say.”

It is impossible to use discernment in detecting whether a potion, spell, enchantment, seance, trance, etc. involves the true activity of demons. Are you going to say that it is fake unless you see, hear, smell, taste, or feel demons being present and active? How are you going to know whether demons are present when you try out what the enchantment says must be done? Are you going to use some kind of supposed “demon-meters” from some supposedly authentic source like Snopes.com to detect whether something authentically supernatural is actually taking place or not? What exactly are you going to do to evaluate supernatural activities of evil supernatural beings when the Bible does not give you any information about those particular occult activities and you as a human do not have any abilities to perceive what is going on in the spirit realm?

Since you say it is impossible to use discernment, then you ARE in effect saying that we DO have to believe everything an occultist says at all times.

No, I am not. When they say something that directly contradicts something that the Bible explicitly speaks about or teaches, we know that what they are saying is false.

Regarding everything else, claiming that we have to use “discernment” to determine whether something specific about some aspect of an occult practice (such as the use of distinctive percussive music on human skull drums) is authentic when Scripture does not give us any basis for knowing what is and isn’t authentic means that you believe that you have some other basis or bases for determining truthfully what is and isn’t authentically demonic. What are those other bases? How do you know that they are true? Where did you get such information about what is authentically demonic and what is not?

I believe if we study the Scriptures in general and seek the Lord’s wisdom through prayer and the power of the Holy Spirit, God will give us the discernment we need. We won’t have perfection in our understanding, but God hasn’t promised us perfect understanding until we get to heaven.

[RajeshG]

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

So why did you argue with me when I said that God would have stronger reasons to reject something than “lack of edification”? You called that idea “exalting your own reasoning above divine revelation.” Are you just objecting to things I say for the sake of arguing?

No, I do not view the one as “stronger” than the other. Those are different kinds of criteria.

I’d say that between “kinds of criteria,” some kinds ARE stronger than others. If God rejects something because it is sinful, that IS a stronger objection than rejecting it because it is lawful but not edifying. Wouldn’t you agree with that?

This is getting really convoluted. I am the one who has been saying all along that there are kinds of music that are not lawful, such the occult abomination of rock music.

My point all along has been that even if the question-begging claim that all kinds of music are lawful is allowed to stand for the sake of discussion, it still does not get the people who make that claim to where they want to be in saying that God accepts the use of all kinds of music in corporate worship. It does not do so because the Bible explicitly says that even for all the things that are lawful, not all things edify.

Anything that does not edify cannot be used acceptably to God in corporate worship. The position, therefore, that God accepts the use of all kinds of music in corporate worship is completely false and has no legitimate basis for anyone to hold that position.

The edification aspect wouldn’t mean that God rejects a certain kind of music for everyone, since edification is not necessarily the same for everyone. You haven’t proven that a certain kind of music is unedifying for everybody.

[Kevin Miller]

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

You have misunderstood what I mean by “proper.” By proper, I mean that the information is used as judiciously and discreetly as possible with as little exposure to the material as possible. It means not experiencing, sampling, or directly viewing or listening to anything for the supposed purpose of using “discernment in believing what they say.”

It is impossible to use discernment in detecting whether a potion, spell, enchantment, seance, trance, etc. involves the true activity of demons. Are you going to say that it is fake unless you see, hear, smell, taste, or feel demons being present and active? How are you going to know whether demons are present when you try out what the enchantment says must be done? Are you going to use some kind of supposed “demon-meters” from some supposedly authentic source like Snopes.com to detect whether something authentically supernatural is actually taking place or not? What exactly are you going to do to evaluate supernatural activities of evil supernatural beings when the Bible does not give you any information about those particular occult activities and you as a human do not have any abilities to perceive what is going on in the spirit realm?

Since you say it is impossible to use discernment, then you ARE in effect saying that we DO have to believe everything an occultist says at all times.

No, I am not. When they say something that directly contradicts something that the Bible explicitly speaks about or teaches, we know that what they are saying is false.

Regarding everything else, claiming that we have to use “discernment” to determine whether something specific about some aspect of an occult practice (such as the use of distinctive percussive music on human skull drums) is authentic when Scripture does not give us any basis for knowing what is and isn’t authentic means that you believe that you have some other basis or bases for determining truthfully what is and isn’t authentically demonic. What are those other bases? How do you know that they are true? Where did you get such information about what is authentically demonic and what is not

So you’re saying we have to believe everything they say unless there is a “explicit” teaching that they are “directly” contradicting. Even if they might be mistaken about something that isn’t “directly” mentioned in Scripture, we still have to totally believe their every word? Even if their perceptions may be warped about something that isn’t “directly” mentioned in Scripture, we still have to believe their every word? I don’t think God expects us to have that much faith in the teachings of occultists who serve the father of lies.

[Kevin Miller]

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

RajeshG wrote:

Kevin Miller wrote:

So why did you argue with me when I said that God would have stronger reasons to reject something than “lack of edification”? You called that idea “exalting your own reasoning above divine revelation.” Are you just objecting to things I say for the sake of arguing?

No, I do not view the one as “stronger” than the other. Those are different kinds of criteria.

I’d say that between “kinds of criteria,” some kinds ARE stronger than others. If God rejects something because it is sinful, that IS a stronger objection than rejecting it because it is lawful but not edifying. Wouldn’t you agree with that?

This is getting really convoluted. I am the one who has been saying all along that there are kinds of music that are not lawful, such the occult abomination of rock music.

My point all along has been that even if the question-begging claim that all kinds of music are lawful is allowed to stand for the sake of discussion, it still does not get the people who make that claim to where they want to be in saying that God accepts the use of all kinds of music in corporate worship. It does not do so because the Bible explicitly says that even for all the things that are lawful, not all things edify.

Anything that does not edify cannot be used acceptably to God in corporate worship. The position, therefore, that God accepts the use of all kinds of music in corporate worship is completely false and has no legitimate basis for anyone to hold that position.

The edification aspect wouldn’t mean that God rejects a certain kind of music for everyone, since edification is not necessarily the same for everyone. You haven’t proven that a certain kind of music is unedifying for everybody.

Exodus 8:26 And Moses said, It is not meet so to do; for we shall sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians to the LORD our God: lo, shall we sacrifice the abomination of the Egyptians before their eyes, and will they not stone us?
Very early in Scripture, God reveals to us that the evil Egyptians regarded what the Israelites offered in worship to God as an abomination. This passage clearly communicates to us that many evil humans do not merely worship the wrong objects; they also abominate what is offered to God in worship that pleases Him and instead offer things in their worship that are not acceptable to God.
Given what God has revealed about such false worshipers, we have explicit biblical revelation that points all the more to our need to reject for any use in worship the abominations of professional occultists who hate and oppose all that is righteous and seek continually to pervert the right ways of God (Acts 13:10).