Did Wisconsin Lawmakers Pull Back Electoral Votes From 2020?

I cannot understand why there are so many Republican lawmakers at so many levels as well as conservative media (which is now the mainstream media) so focused on such a fraudulent narrative. A year later and they can’t let it go. Trying every form and manner to subvert a free and fair democratic election.

And before anyone says this is fringe, the majority of Republican voters are just as strongly entrenched in this.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/poll-nearly-6-in-10-republicans-say-they-wil…

[dgszweda]

I cannot understand why there are so many Republican lawmakers at so many levels as well as conservative media (which is now the mainstream media) so focused on such a fraudulent narrative. A year later and they can’t let it go. Trying every form and manner to subvert a free and fair democratic election.

And before anyone says this is fringe, the majority of Republican voters are just as strongly entrenched in this.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/poll-nearly-6-in-10-republicans-say-they-will…

I agree, but have no idea why people are so caught up in this. I have visited several churches in my city trying to find a new church home, and it is this stuff they talk about before/after church. The Republicans in the KS state legislature is blooming nuts… NUTS. Wacko. Stratospherically so… I am so frustrated.

[Mark_Smith]

dgszweda wrote:

I cannot understand why there are so many Republican lawmakers at so many levels as well as conservative media (which is now the mainstream media) so focused on such a fraudulent narrative. A year later and they can’t let it go. Trying every form and manner to subvert a free and fair democratic election.

And before anyone says this is fringe, the majority of Republican voters are just as strongly entrenched in this.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/poll-nearly-6-in-10-republicans-say-they-will…

I agree, but have no idea why people are so caught up in this. I have visited several churches in my city trying to find a new church home, and it is this stuff they talk about before/after church. The Republicans in the KS state legislature is blooming nuts… NUTS. Wacko. Stratospherically so… I am so frustrated.

This is what you get when the evangelical right becomes a one-issue group. They voted on the one candidate that was against abortion. That was all they could focus on. I remember getting berated by many Christians because when I said I wasn’t voting for Trump, they asked how I could support abortion. They ignored the lunacy of Trump. They got Trump and now everyone is onboard with the lunacy. Reminds me of the story, “The Emporer’s New Clothes”.

I am unfortunately starting to realize that many in our church are not bright in general and on top of that, have a lack of theology and doctrine to guide their decision making process.

My thought is that if you took a poll of evangelical conservatives, they’d quickly disabuse you of being just a one issue group by coming out pretty uniformly pro-gun rights, pro-judicial restraint/originalism, and the like. Now the issues correlate pretty well—if someone is pro-gun rights, they are also probably anti-abortion as well—but that’s not as if the evangelical right sold their souls for just a tiny bit of work on abortion.

But to the topic, when I saw the headline, my immediate thought was that you can’t withdraw electors after their votes have been counted, and yes, there is a quorum of people in this country (on both sides of the aisle) that seem to think the game is rigged, and that some amazing legal or extra-legal maneouver is going to rectify things. On the flip side, there were a number of changes to election rules that did reduce vote security and increase the chances of vote fraud. So people do have a reason to say “hey, wait a minute” on this. That is, really, why so many (again, both sides) seem to hope for a “Hail Mary” pass to put their opponents out of office.

[Bert Perry]

there is a quorum of people in this country (on both sides of the aisle) that seem to think the game is rigged, …………………On the flip side, there were a number of changes to election rules that did reduce vote security and increase the chances of vote fraud. So people do have a reason to say “hey, wait a minute” on this.

The issue is why there is a quorum (and I would argue it is not on both sides of the aisle), it is strongly, strongly Republican, and specifically the conservative evangelical movement within the Republican party. Sure there are democrats who believe it, but the numbers are very much in the minority, that believe this. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that anything took place. Even the documents coming out of Trump’s WhiteHouse believes there was nothing there. But that doesn’t mean anything. You have a narcissistic individual who is weilding a lot of power in this party, and everyone is rushing to seek his approval and will just agree with him, or push his narrative.

You can say, “hey, wait a minute” all you want, but whether it reduced voter security or increased voter fraud is all hypothetical, as recount after recount is showing there was nothing there. Even the conspiracy theorists that ran the Arizona recount found nothing and instead actually found a few more votes for Biden. The fact that 60% of Republican will now not vote for a Republican candidate unless they publicly espouse that Biden was elected fraudulently, should really scare us. It probably doesn’t scare us that much because most of us haven’t live in a coup. But guess what. This is textbook as to how it happens.

The list of Democrats alleging election irregularities is only obscure radicals in the fold, like Joseph Robinette Biden (who has already disputed the outcome of the 2022 elections that haven’t even been held yet) and Hilliary Rodham Clinton, who’s never really come to terms with the outcome of the 2016 elections.

And really , most Democrats supported the Mueller investigation, which took a fraudulent dossier and attempted to overturn Trump’s election, often involving Mueller staffers lying to courts to obtain subpoenas, as well as numerous leaks intended to damage Trump associates..So no, there are a LOT of Democrats who will fight elections by hook or crook when it suits their purposes. I’d argue a majority.

Regarding “recount after recount showed there was nothing there”, exactly how do you prove that when we have an Australian ballot and cannot track votes? You can give me a box of votes and tell me to recount them a hundred times, and I will still have zero evidence that those votes were cast honestly. The die is cast once the ballots are in the box.

I’m glad we have the secret ballot, but having one requires that we have adequate controls on who submits then and how.

[Bert Perry]

and cannot track votes? You can give me a box of votes and tell me to recount them a hundred times, and I will still have zero evidence that those votes were cast honestly. The die is cast once the ballots are in the box.

Where are they anonymous? You walk into a polling precinct, they compare your name on the list, they check your id to confirm and you go in and vote. What you cast may be anonymous, but it isn’t like random people are shuffling in and out all day voting and re-voting, or voting at multiple places around the county. For mail in you need to request a ballot, you vote, mail in, the bar code is checked against what was sent, your signature is matched and then you vote. The vote is not anonymous, just who you chose. Georgia did an audit on signatures, using the GBI and software and did not find a single case of fraud, including knocking on doors and talking to the actual individual who voted to confirm their signatures. If it was anonymous, how could they have talked to people? Even in the few cases where there was a discrepancy, there was no fraud.

https://www.ajc.com/politics/no-fraud-georgia-audit-confirms-authentici…

Your perception on how voting and recounts work, is misconstrued.

I don’t know Wisconsin, but in KS this is NOT a one issue thing. Sure, abortion is big, but there are so many other things. They have reduced the power of the governor repeatedly due to her being a Democrat and they are R. She can no longer order take-out without a legislative sign off. Its absurd the micromanagement. This happened mainly due to COVID. Most R legislators are of the “COVID is just a cold” crowd. They made it so that if ANY school closes due to COVID they lose funding… They’ve chased off all kinds of health professionals over COVID. They are trying to pass a law that forces pharmacists to fulfill prescriptions for ivermectin and hydrochorozone (sp?) that quack doctors make. They keep fighting to stop the drive to end sales tax on groceries (which they’ve stopped for decades). And they want to use the COVID government money to fund state employee pensions… NOT because that’s the right thing to do (to fund the promised pensions which they have refused to do for decades) but because this way no social spending money is spent.

Then go to churches. I’ve visited a half dozen churches the last several months. NO ONE is wearing masks. All day every day people wear masks where I work. At church NO ONE wears masks. No one spaces out. COVID doesn’t exist. EXCEPT… at a few of them they have had waves of COVID move through the congregations… they “ask for prayer” but refuse to do anything practical about it… And I’m supposed to attend there? Nope!

[Mark_Smith]

Then go to churches. I’ve visited a half dozen churches the last several months. NO ONE is wearing masks.

What is even crazier is when we are sitting in a church service and someone who was very vocal in being anti-vax, never wore a mask, dismiss COVID and was at risk, is now in the hospital really struggling, and the church is silent about the behavior, but urging everyone to pray for the guy as he clings to life. I don’t want to sound mean, because flat out we should pray for others. But it is akin to a guy running across freeways for fun, gets hit and now we hope that God spares His life. I don’t think we should get hysterical with the disease, but some common sense would be great in our churches.

[dgszweda]

Mark_Smith wrote:

Then go to churches. I’ve visited a half dozen churches the last several months. NO ONE is wearing masks.

What is even crazier is when we are sitting in a church service and someone who was very vocal in being anti-vax, never wore a mask, dismiss COVID and was at risk, is now in the hospital really struggling, and the church is silent about the behavior, but urging everyone to pray for the guy as he clings to life. I don’t want to sound mean, because flat out we should pray for others. But it is akin to a guy running across freeways for fun, gets hit and now we hope that God spares His life. I don’t think we should get hysterical with the disease, but some common sense would be great in our churches.

Yep, this gives me no pleasure. At the last church we visited for a while the 30 year old children’s minister was on death’s door for weeks, ventilator, all of it. She regularly gives her testimony about how God healed her and taught her many things in that illness. But no masks… just weekly prayer requests for lists of people.

Trying every form and manner to subvert a free and fair democratic election.

Have you considered that it might be the opposite—that some are trying to preserve a free and fair election? While motives are not everything, they are usually something and attributing bad faith to people is generally not good form absent clear indications of bad faith. Like it or not, there are substantial reasons to doubt whether the election was free and fair. That is not the same as saying that Trump won. It is a completely different issue. And that is what many, perhaps you, cannot fathom—that there are many reasons to suspect the freeness and fairness of an election without buying into “the Big Lie.” There were numerous irregularities and changes in procedure that were contrary to law. We know of some fraud and some problems. For instance, in a city in Michigan we know the votes of dead people were counted. Then they were discovered and removed from the count. Which is good, right? Of course. And then it should make you wonder how many didn’t get discovered. We were told this stuff doesn’t happen. Then it is verified that is does happen. And we don’t know what we don’t know.

We don’t know how much because of the attitude of some who got their outcome and do not want anything to reflect negatively on that. So we have constant declarations that it’s all good, but no actual examination of much of it. Some cannot afford any question and that is a bad place to be.

Again, as I have said, I think Trump lost. Had there not been COVID and a flurry of voting procedure changes in the months leading up to the election, that might be different. But it’s not. But don’t conflate those who think there might be problems with those who think Trump won.

I would argue it is not on both sides of the aisle

How is this statement any different than the Trump supporters who deny the reality that their guy lost? We know factually that it is on both sides of the aisle. To say otherwise in mindboggling. It is devoid of reality. It seems little different than “the Big Lie.”

To affirm it is not on both sides, you have to ignore the electoral college vote in 2017 where numerous Democrats contested the votes and Biden did exactly what Pence did … rule them out of order. They tried to overthrow the election because they thought it was stolen. You have to ignore the electoral college votes in 2000 and 2004. You have o ignore repeated claims by many including Hillary Clinton who as recently as a few months ago, IIRC, was claiming a stolen election. Democrat Stacy Abrams is still claiming she won the GA governorship in 2018 despite losing by 50,000 votes. Many Democrats are still claiming Bush stole the 2000 election. A significant percentage of Democrats (between 10 and 40ish% depending on which poll and when) believe the 2020 election was stolen, rigged, or fraudulent in someway. That’s bipartisan by any standard, especially by the congressional standard when one vote from the other party is “bipartisan.” We witnessed years of investigation into Russian influence under the supposition that it affected the election to the point of stealing it for Trump. All last summer, both sides were claiming that if their side lost it was because of cheating. The Dems are already claiming that if their voting rights bill isn’t passed, the 2022 midterms will be stolen and fraudulent, and not even one ballot has been cast yet.

So it is mindboggling to claim it is all on one side. It is clearly and factually not all one-sided.

You walk into a polling precinct, they compare your name on the list, they check your id to confirm and you go in and vote.

No, not always and not in all places. This is simply not true. During one election I had my license out and ready and the poll worker said, “Put that away. We can’t look at it.” True story. You simply signed your name and address, off of which is public information.

And if the idea of same day registration passes, there will be more problems because there will be no way to know who voted where. The NY voters rejected this by a strong margin. GA passed it and GA is declared racist and restrictive for doing what NY voters voted to do.

For mail in you need to request a ballot

Again, no. Many states, including Michigan, in 2020 began to mail ballots unsolicited. I got them even though I had made no request and it was likely in violation of law. I saw reports and it was confirmed by friends who received ballots addressed to people who had not lived in that particular location in years and years. They got them for children who were living elsewhere. All they needed to do, were they inclined, was fill them out and turn them in and there was no way to know the difference.

IMO, you are too smart for this. I get that you don’t like Trump. I don’t either. I don’t think Trump won. But there were significant problems in 2020 and claims of stolen elections and fraud abound on all sides.

If we are not willing to tell the truth, we have no moral authority to complain about Trump or Biden or the right or the left or anything else. We have to tell the whole truth even if we don’t like it.

[Mark_Smith]

They are trying to pass a law that forces pharmacists to fulfill prescriptions for ivermectin and hydrochorozone (sp?) that quack doctors make. [bold added to the original]

[dgszweda]

I don’t think we should get hysterical with the disease, but some common sense would be great in our churches.

Please describe what you believe a “common sense” approach in church for Covid should look like. Clearly there are plenty of churches using what they consider to be a common sense approach and coming to different conclusions as to what actions the church and its members should take.