Beale on Broader Evangelicalism
” …let’s just zero in on the most significant problem with Dr. Beale’s taxonomy—that there are only two groups in our day, Fundamentalism and Broad Evangelicalism” - Doran
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One: I am not interested in detailing the many problems with Redaction Criticism using this type of format. It’s not conducive to the detailed analysis necessary for the topic. Plenty of resources available to do that, such as The Jesus Crisis and The Jesus Quest. Evangelicals have argued this extensively in JETS. The Point: Acceptance/Toleration of RC at BJU Seminary is an example of the theological change which several in this thread asked for, and it is a significant change. Don’t minimize the significance until you have done the research first.
Two: BGEA and Samaritan’s Purse both have the same President and CEO: Franklin Graham. BGEA still practices ecumenical evangelism. Franklin Graham has not ended the practice.
Three: I am disappointed that some posting here misconstrue and twist what others say, sometimes so they can write cute and somewhat humorous posts. Not Helpful. Makes me wonder if they truly understand the significance of the topics under discussion.
Four: The John MacArthur / BJU “blood of Christ” controversy has nothing to do with anything in this thread.
Five: Jeff has an excellent point. Thanks Jeff.
Wally Morris
Charity Baptist Church
Huntington, IN
amomentofcharity.blogspot.com
….it would make that much of a difference whether BGEA and SP are connected. Both are broadly evangelical, both will work to a degree with those who don’t hold to the five theological fundamentals. Shouldn’t the principles of separation, whatever they should be, apply equally to both?
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Difference between Samaritan’s Purse and BGEA is important because
- truth is important and they are not the same organizations
- participating in Operation Christmas Child is a far cry from say sponsoring a citywide BGEA crusade alongside the local liberal church.
Regarding Operation Christmas Child being more acceptable than partnering with BGEA, ultimately a person is going to have to come to their own conclusion about that and make their own decision based on knowledge of the program and organization compared to their own understanding and convictions about what the Bible says. As I have said before, I can understand and respect that people are going to come to the conclusion that BJU participating in Operation Christmas Child is wrong. But yes, in my estimation, BJU participating in Operation Christmas Child is more acceptable than partnering with BGEA in an ecumenically sponsored evangelistic crusade.
Regarding Franklin Graham, from what I have seen, he has seemed to be less ecumenical than his father. Merely my limited observations over the years.
[Rob Fall] And then there isMaranatha.
This comment epitomizes what the few Maranatha alumni who remain in organizational Fundamentalism that I personally know say to each other. All the circles, camps, and cliques exist, “and then there is Maranatha.”
Somehow that school just keeps existing apart from it all.
On the difference between SP and BGEA. A look at the websites of both organizations(particularly th about sections regarding who they are and what they do will help clarify the differences between them.
*whew* Got that off my chest. Hopefully I can let this discussion go so that we can discuss other subjects.
BJU also has allowed a Chick-fil-A franchise on campus. CFA’s owners are in the SBC and financially support that denomination. #sarcasmintended
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
It goes back to the founding of the school. Dr. Cedarholm was an original. He wasn’t a second-generation Fundamentalist. The isolation of the Upper Midwest from the winds of Southern Cultural Fundamentalism also helped.
[W. T. O’Harver]This comment epitomizes what the few Maranatha alumni who remain in organizational Fundamentalism that I personally know say to each other. All the circles, camps, and cliques exist, “and then there is Maranatha.”
Somehow that school just keeps existing apart from it all.
Hoping to shed more light than heat..
BJU also has allowed a Chick-fil-A franchise on campus.
Oh this is CLEARLY a sign of the Fundamentalist Downgrade now that BJU has compromised by allowing a multimillion dollar restaurant chain on premises.
My OutrageOMeter is beyond pegged now. Who wants to join my protest march at the FMA?
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
….that we could protest at Chik-Fil-A, instead.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
I came to this thread late. I have no dog in the hunt. I have taken 2 online classes from BJU over the years. Both were good. But I have never visited the campus. Never heard BJJr or BJIII or Stephen Jones. I have heard the current president on livestream chapel services. So I have no dog in the pro-BJU camp, no connection to yon year of fundamentalist perfection. On the other hand I listen regularly to the apparently still heretical John MacArthur (per true BJU supporters).
Let me also say I have, and will still, given to both SP and OPP. GASP!!!!!!
In full disclosure I have never knowingly heard a BG sermon or message, even back in the day when I remember they were on TV and a child…
I read with interest the claim the OPP is somehow a bad thing. Let me ask this. If OPP teaches materialism, then I hope and pray you never buy your kid a toothbrush, or a small doll or toy truck, or candy. After all, you wouldn’t want to teach your child that love is materialism… Or if you are a grandparent, heaven help you if you buy your grandchild something that undermines your child’s parental authority! Or never buy you niece or nephew a similar gift that suggests does the same! Hypocrisy is such an unsightly thing…
Perhaps a small goat in the backyard would better teach your child to support themselves and cut the ties to America’s materialism.
You just might be a hypocrit if you don’t want to send a kid in Africa a toothbrush and candy for Christmas so as to avoid the notion of teaching materialism while replying on a laptop connected to high-speed internet via 5G wifi….
[W. T. O’Harver]Enjoy.
https://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2021/12/facts-enlarged-discuss…
thunk! Worthless drivel
I have always had great respect for Dr. Beale but some of his takes here are shockingly bad. Has he even read Naselli’s book? This is either a terrible summary or he is ignorant of what he actually teaches. How anyone could read “Let Go and Let God?” for instance and come to that understanding is amazing. By the way, DBTS had Naselli teach on Keswick theology as well but it was prior to his going to Bethlehem (I think). In a few hours of listening a person can get a pretty good idea of what he actually teaches.
Also this section on the “apostate” OPC is foolish in the extreme. I’ll have to go back and read his book so I can learn all about that wicked apostate J. Gresham Machen.
“Covenant Community (Taylors, SC): An Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC). On one of their website videos, the pastor poured water on a little child’s head and said, “This is like Abraham’s ‘baptizing his whole house’” (Genesis 17). The pastor substituted the word baptism for the word circumcision and called it regeneration. Augustine and Roman Catholicism devised and standardized this doctrine, which assumes an OT circumcisional regeneration for Jewish males.4 Romanism transformed that doctrine into NT water baptismal regeneration to elect infants. Forms of that doctrine passed into Reformed theology. John Calvin insisted that OT circumcision engrafted the Jewish infant into the covenant [elect] family of God; thus, NT baptism engrafts a newborn child into the body of Christ.5 Reformed doctrine leads many to believe the seed of regeneration is implanted at infant baptism, though salvation might occur later.”
Really disappointed in this “expansion.” To me, Dr. Beale has discredited himself.
[josh p]I have always had great respect for Dr. Beale but some of his takes here are shockingly bad. Has he even read Naselli’s book?
Josh, I haven’t read Naselli’s book either. The content of the book is not the main issue. Andy has clearly identified himself with a movement that fundamentalists find highly questionable, to say the least. I am not sure of Bethlehem Baptist’s views of the sign gifts, but Piper clearly embraced them. But that is not all, Bethlehem Baptist is part of a denomination that is (or was) home to Open Theism. As far as I know, they never expelled these false teachers.
What I found “shockingly bad” was to have Naselli speak at lectures held in honour of Dr. Custer. I knew Dr. Custer. He wouldn’t have put up with Naselli’s compromise for a minute.
You can agree or disagree with Dr. Beale on his positions, but the point of his complaints (and mine) are that BJU has moved away from its earlier positions. I think they’ve made the wrong decision, and the invitation to Naselli is one example of the problem.
Granted, many here disagree. That’s their business. And granted, Dr. Beale’s term “Broader Evangelicalism” is the wrong term to describe Naselli. Nevertheless, the issue isn’t Naselli (he’s made his own decisions), it is BJU and the changes that are happening there.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
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