Evangelical leaders condemn Capitol protest violence: 'Dangerous for our republic'

Sorry, but it’s a little late. This is what you voted for. The same reasoning that says “backing Trump is necessary because…” says “storming the capitol is necessary because…” In both cases there’s an overvaluing of (hoped for) ends at the expense of properly valuing means.

There are times in life when people of principle say, “If this is what winning would require me to do, I must accept the loss.” Wish more people had made that choice in 2016. More did in 2020, but not enough. Yesterday, 100% of those protesting chose winning over principle. A percentage took it further than the rest, but the ethics of it all was the same.

Aaron, I agree. Like I said in a different thread, Trump has done more to harm / destroy the Republican party than any Democrat could have dreamed of doing. And, he did it with conservative Christian support.

So, great way to win the Supreme Court but lose your soul.

Aaron, you have been particularly edgy during this election season but this is beyond the pale. Those who voted for Trump did not vote for this. To think that is bad enough. To say that publicly is wrong. Your previous comments have come dangerously close to questioning the Christianity and moral values of those who disagree with you. These current comments accuse them of desiring and encouraging violence and overthrow. If you have words from them to support this, then cite them here. If you don’t, I would encourage you to remove this post before anyone else sees it.

Don’t do this. It’s nonsense and you know it. There is a very large gap between supporting Trump and storming the capitol and you know that.

You have consistently reminded us that you are not responsible for all the outcomes of your votes. Apply that here.

[Aaron Blumer]

Sorry, but it’s a little late. This is what you voted for.

No, Aaron. Voting for Trump has NOTHING to do with storming the Capitol. Supporting Trump in the election had NOTHING to do with storming the capitol. Seeing that there were questions about procedures in PA and GA has NOTHING to do with storming the capitol.

I would appreciate you honestly recognizing that.

If you can’t see the vast difference between making a thoughtful choice to vote against an ungodly, anti-Christian agenda, and breaking the law by storming the capitol, then you have lost perspective. The anti-Trumpism of some is every bit as extreme as the pro-Trumpism of others. It looks like your need to justify a questionable decision to indirectly support Biden and the Democratic Party agenda is blinding you to reality. You made your decision, you need to accept the consequences and live with it. Bolstering it by emotional rhetoric does nothing to support the validity of that decision.

[Larry] Aaron, you have been particularly edgy during this election season but this is beyond the pale. Those who voted for Trump did not vote for this.

Larry, yes they did vote for this. They voted for a morally corrupt, egomaniacal bully who has repeatedly shown he will do whatever he wants to get what he wants. Because what Trump wanted aligned with what they wanted, they were fine with his character and behavior. Now it has come home to roost. But, now they want to wash their hands like Pilot. Too Late.

Character matters.

Larry, yes they did vote for this. They voted for a morally corrupt, egomaniacal bully who has repeatedly shown he will do whatever he wants to get what he wants.

No, they did not vote for violence. Again, if you have evidence that they voted for violence, then cite it here. Otherwise, don’t say it.

Character matters.

Yes, and it starts with telling the truth, even about those you disagree with.

[Larry] Yes, and it starts with telling the truth, even about those you disagree with.

I did. They voted for a morally corrupt, egomaniacal bully who has repeatedly shown he will do whatever he wants to get what he wants.

Reminds me of my 8 year old twins fighting with each other.

Voting for Trump was not “supporting an egomaniacal” and “morally corrupt” bully.

Voting for Trump was not a vote to raid the Capitol.

Just because you hate Trump and he went off the deep end doesn’t make you a proclaimer of truth.

I did.

If you think this is true, then quote someone who says they voted for violence.

They voted for a morally corrupt, egomaniacal bully who has repeatedly shown he will do whatever he wants to get what he wants.

A great many of them voted for policies and for judges and for cabinet members. A great many of them voted against a morally corrupt, egomaniacal bully who has repeatedly shown he will do whatever he wants to get what he wants.

So again, if you have evidence, then put it here. But I would encourage you to take a moment before accusing people of desiring violence and overthrow. And after a moment, if you still wish to accuse people of that, then take another moment. Give us evidence or don’t say it.

[Larry] So again, if you have evidence, then put it here. But I would encourage you to take a moment before accusing people of desiring violence and overthrow. And after a moment, if you still wish to accuse people of that, then take another moment. Give us evidence or don’t say it.

They voted for Trump because they believed the end justifies the means (at least politically). They can’t wash Trump off their hands now. He’s just doing what they enabled him to do and what they knew he was capable of and threatening to do all along. So, spare me the moral outrage.

They voted for Trump because they believed the end justifies the means (at least politically).

I can’t speak for all of them, but no, I know a great many who do not believe that. And there is clearly a huge difference between a political desire and one that ends up in violence. I think we all know that. The question is, Why not say that? Our nation has a long history of civil disobedience and peaceful protest and Christians have long been a part of it while rejecting the violence that it has occasionally ended in. To do one is not to support the other.

I think this is part of the problem: A great many people have no idea what “the other side” believes because they haven’t listened. And rather than listening, they prefer to make charges and accusations that frequently have no basis in reality and truth. But it’s a whole lot easier to make accusations.

That’s what got us here. The rhetoric has constantly intensified from both sides towards the other and it has resulted in great problems that will not be easily solved. But as Christians, I think we have a higher duty and I would urge us to that the mantle of that higher duty and live it out.

I say all this not because I am a Trump supporter. I am not. I think he has been a bad president who became president by a strange confluence of events including the split of the evangelical vote during the primary in 2016. Remember, most evangelicals voted for someone other than Trump when there was another option. I wish someone had primaried Trump in 2020.

My concern is for the truth. Making false accusations against people is what Trump does. Why become like him?

I’ve got to confess that I’ve never really voted “for” any candidate for President, going back all the way to Bush in 1988. I’ve voted against their opponents a lot, though.

And really, if Trump voters are said to have voted “for” Trump’s egomania, do we get to say Biden voters voted for his corruption and plagiarism? That Clinton voters were supporting her corruption and failure to heed classified data rules? That Obama voters were voting for his corruption and weaponizing of the bureaucracy and media against his political opponents?

Going in in 2016, I knew casting a vote for Trump was a risk for exactly this kind of thing. My understanding, having worked in defense related jobs where the employer made it very clear that you’d be given the bum’s rush if you mishandled classified data, was that putting Mrs. Clinton in the White House was a far greater risk because anyone who had those emails (read: Russia, China, and others) would be able to pull diplomats aside and ask whether their boss wanted X, Y, or Z on the front page of the Times or Post.

Due to his son’s shenanigans, I’ve got the same concerns with Biden, and Biden was also an architect of the Obama era weaponization of the bureaucracy against the Republicans. Plus, he never was that smart, and he’s showing clear signs of dementia. Do the math. When I consider my viable options, I’m not voting “for” either of them. I’m trying to choose the lesser evil.

A vote for Trump was a vote for deceit, lack of ethics, and violence. You can’t separate the man’s character (lack thereof) from his presidency. It’s a package deal. I, along with others, have been saying since early 2016 that voting for Trump would end very badly because of his lack of character and his penchant for stoking violence via his rhetoric.

This is what the Alinsky-styled pragmatism of evangelical Trump voters was always going to produce.