Evangelicals Have Abandoned the Character Test. The Competence Test is Next.
“I know that for now I’ve lost the character argument. It’s well-established that a great number of white Evangelicals didn’t truly believe the words they wrote, endorsed, and argued in 1998 and for 18 years until the 2016 election. Oh sure, they thought they believed those words….We may think we possess an array of virtues and beliefs, but we don’t really know who we are or what we believe until those virtues and beliefs are put to the test.” - The Dispatch
- 3 views
Half or less of French’s posts get any attention here, and only a subset of those are about the great evangelical sell out. I can’t think of any good reason to reduce the number further… Certainly the fact it’s an unpopular minority view isn’t a good reason.
French is not simply saying the same thing over and over. He keeps getting better at saying it and better at proving it, though seeing that would require reading on a regular basis. … which too few are willing to do.
Sure… there are days when I feel like any effort to persuade anybody of anything is futile. But I’m not likely to give up. I’m kind of hard wired that way.
And I think sometimes that the irrational-rant reactions (as opposed to the reasoned ones, which do also happen, thankfully) kind of make my point for me… maybe better than I could make it. What happens here is nothing like the bile people dump on French on Twitter and Facebook. I’ve only seen a little of it, and that was enough! I don’t know how he deals with that as patiently as he does.
Which maybe also makes my point for me better than I could.
No, by all means, those who’s minds are completely closed should simply pretend these posts don’t exist. Those who, like me, are in the minority view find French’s clarity comforting, though it’s not happy truth… and those wrestling with it all (I think there are a few new ones waking up now and then) can be helped. I can’t pass up the potential to help them.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
and a little levity
I appreciate your convictions. I just think you are 100% misguided and miss the point of a representative republic even in a Christian context.
The very premise of an evangelical sell out is also wrong. I have posted the data before, but will do so again. The vast majority of evangelicals in the 2016 GOP primary did NOT support Donald Trump. Most were opposed to him. Yes, there were a few loud voices (like Falwell) who backed Trump, but it was not the majority of evangelicals. This keeps getting repeated as though frequent repetitions will make it true, so it can then be used as a club to clobber evangelicals as though they have sold out Christian principles. Going back to 2016 and the GOP primary, below is the inconvenient data, showing that Trump only got the nomination due to the splintered field of candidates, plus Democrats crossing over to vote for him because he was considered the easiest out in the general election:
Feb 1: IOWA
Trump received 24.3% of the vote. This means 75.7% of Republican voters preferred one of the other 11 candidates.
Feb 9: NEW HAMPSHIRE
This state isn’t exactly an evangelical stronghold, but Trump got 35.2% of the vote, while 64.8% of the voters preferred one of the other 9 candidates still running.
Feb 20: SOUTH CAROLINA
The first Bible-belt contest found Trump getting only 32.5% of the vote, despite the momentum he should have gotten having won NH. 67.5% of voters preferred one of the other 5 candidates still running.
Feb 23: NEVADA
This state is not exactly stuffed with evangelicals, and Trump received 45.7% of the vote. Still short of 50%, as 54.3% of the voters preferred one of the other 4 candidates still running.
**During any normal primary process, a candidate winning three early states in a row, splintered field or otherwise, would tend to bring an end to the process, but not so, because the remaining candidates were fighting for the unified support of the MAJORITY of voters who found Trump unacceptable.**
March 1: SUPER TUESDAY (5 candidates still running)
AL: Trump 43.4% - 56.6% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
AK: Trump 33.6% - 66.4% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
AR: Trump 32.8% - 67.2% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
GA: Trump 39% - 61% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
MA: Trump 49% - 51% of voters preferred one of the 4 others. (Note, MA not exactly evangelical stronghold)
MN: Trump 21% - 79% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
OK: Trump 28% - 72% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
TN: Trump 39% - 61% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
TX: Trump 27% - 73% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
VT: Trump 33% - 67% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
VA: Trump 35% - 65% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
March 5-12:
KS: Trump 23% - 77% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
KY: Trump 36% - 64% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
LA: Trump 41% - 59% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
ME: Trump 33% - 67% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
PR: Trump 13% - 87% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
HI: Trump 43% - 57% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
ID: Trump 28% - 72% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
MI: Trump 37% - 63% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
MS: Trump 47% - 53% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
DC: Trump 14% - 86% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
WY: Trump 7.2% - 92.8% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
**Up through Super Tuesday Trump collected the vast majority of delegates because he was running in a lane all to himself, while Rubio, Cruz and Kasich were all canceling each other out in their attempt to be the lone survivor who then could defeat Trump. But please note that at this point, the field of candidates has defeated Trump in EVERY race thus far. At the time, many believed that Trump’s delegate lead would prompt voters to abandon the others and join him—but this was not the case. The race kept going because Republican voters, including evangelicals were not content to settle for Trump.**
March 15
FL: Trump 46% - 54% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
IL: Trump 39% - 61% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
MO: Trump 40.8% - 59.2% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
NC: Trump 40% - 60% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
**At this point Rubio dropped out, but still with only Kasich and Cruz left, Trump still struggled to get 50% against the field.**
March 22 - April 19
AZ: Trump 46% - 54% preferred one of the others.
UT: Trump 14% - 86% preferred one of the others.
WI: Trump 35% - 65% preferred one of the others.
NY: Trump 59% - 41% preferred one of the others. Finally, after 3/5ths of all the states voted, and the race was over due to delegate count, Trump finally gets over 50%, in New York, his home state, which is hardly an evangelical stronghold.
Once the nomination was secure, then evangelicals who opposed Trump in the primary had a choice. They could continue fighting the GOP primary even though it ended, or they could decide to get what they could in the general election. Many never-Trumpers decided to continue to fight the 2016 GOP primary, and they continue to fight that primary to this day. But it is long over. It’s done. God in His providence over all the circumstances and choices made throughout the GOP process decided to setup Trump as the nominee. At the time I could not understand it. But rather than deciding that God got it wrong—that He shouldn’t have allowed it, most evangelicals decided that Trump’s promise to nominate conservative judges provided a worthwhile distinction between Trump and Clinton, and so they voted for him. Not because they threw out the importance of character, honesty, and integrity, but because these virtues ARE CRITICALLY important, especially so among the powerful judges who sit on the supreme court as well as the circuit courts.
Neither Clinton nor Trump personally possessed character, honesty or integrity. That was NOT an option on the presidential line of the ballot. But those virtues as represented by the forthcoming judicial appointments WERE on the ballot, not to mention the powerful positions of vice-president, secretery of state, and all the cabinet members. This last point is extremely important and often overlooked by never-Trumpers. The president doesn’t rule alone. The federal government, for better or worse has become huge, with numerous departments and offices. These deparements often wield tremendous power over how we live. They can declare, at their will, binding policy that we must follow, without any say from the elected congressional representatives. Trump cannot and does not have the power to put himself in all these positions. So he appoints people to these positions—people who do have character, honesty, and integrity. The life-long pattern of the Clinton family has been to appoint cronies to such positions.
In short, the 2016 GOP primary was a different election from the 2016 general election. The vast majority of evangelicals OPPOSED Donald Trump in the primary election, precisely for the reasons touted by the Never Trumpers—everything about his behavior suggested he lacked the character, integrity and honesty we would like to see in a President.
But in the General Election, evangelicals voted to get the most integrity, honesty and character possible, and so they voted for Trump, so that all the government officials, vice-president, and judges would be people who would be more apt to align with Christian ideals. Never Trumpers have never been able to see the forest because they are stuck six inches away from one tree that they will never allow themselves to look beyond.
I still don’t like Trump and I find him personally repulsive. But the election is bigger than one person. A vote for president is a vote for powerful federal judges, vice-president (who breaks ties in the senate), and a host of cabinet positions and departments, as well as the direction and usage of our armed forces. I will vote to get all the integrity, character, and honesty in leaders that is possible to get. This means I will vote for Trump, even though he personally does not square with these critical virtues. It is time to put the 2016 GOP primary to rest. It is time to get what we can, given the options that God has provided us through His providence.
[Darrell Post]Thanks for laying out this information in detail.The very premise of an evangelical sell out is also wrong. I have posted the data before, but will do so again. The vast majority of evangelicals in the 2016 GOP primary did NOT support Donald Trump. Most were opposed to him. Yes, there were a few loud voices (like Falwell) who backed Trump, but it was not the majority of evangelicals. This keeps getting repeated as though frequent repetitions will make it true, so it can then be used as a club to clobber evangelicals as though they have sold out Christian principles. Going back to 2016 and the GOP primary, below is the inconvenient data, showing that Trump only got the nomination due to the splintered field of candidates, plus Democrats crossing over to vote for him because he was considered the easiest out in the general election:
Feb 1: IOWA
Trump received 24.3% of the vote. This means 75.7% of Republican voters preferred one of the other 11 candidates.
Feb 9: NEW HAMPSHIRE
This state isn’t exactly an evangelical stronghold, but Trump got 35.2% of the vote, while 64.8% of the voters preferred one of the other 9 candidates still running.
Feb 20: SOUTH CAROLINA
The first Bible-belt contest found Trump getting only 32.5% of the vote, despite the momentum he should have gotten having won NH. 67.5% of voters preferred one of the other 5 candidates still running.
Feb 23: NEVADA
This state is not exactly stuffed with evangelicals, and Trump received 45.7% of the vote. Still short of 50%, as 54.3% of the voters preferred one of the other 4 candidates still running.
**During any normal primary process, a candidate winning three early states in a row, splintered field or otherwise, would tend to bring an end to the process, but not so, because the remaining candidates were fighting for the unified support of the MAJORITY of voters who found Trump unacceptable.**
March 1: SUPER TUESDAY (5 candidates still running)
AL: Trump 43.4% - 56.6% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
AK: Trump 33.6% - 66.4% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
AR: Trump 32.8% - 67.2% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
GA: Trump 39% - 61% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
MA: Trump 49% - 51% of voters preferred one of the 4 others. (Note, MA not exactly evangelical stronghold)
MN: Trump 21% - 79% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
OK: Trump 28% - 72% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
TN: Trump 39% - 61% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
TX: Trump 27% - 73% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
VT: Trump 33% - 67% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
VA: Trump 35% - 65% of voters preferred one of the 4 others.
March 5-12:
KS: Trump 23% - 77% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
KY: Trump 36% - 64% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
LA: Trump 41% - 59% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
ME: Trump 33% - 67% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
PR: Trump 13% - 87% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
HI: Trump 43% - 57% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
ID: Trump 28% - 72% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
MI: Trump 37% - 63% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
MS: Trump 47% - 53% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
DC: Trump 14% - 86% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
WY: Trump 7.2% - 92.8% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
**Up through Super Tuesday Trump collected the vast majority of delegates because he was running in a lane all to himself, while Rubio, Cruz and Kasich were all canceling each other out in their attempt to be the lone survivor who then could defeat Trump. But please note that at this point, the field of candidates has defeated Trump in EVERY race thus far. At the time, many believed that Trump’s delegate lead would prompt voters to abandon the others and join him—but this was not the case. The race kept going because Republican voters, including evangelicals were not content to settle for Trump.**
March 15
FL: Trump 46% - 54% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
IL: Trump 39% - 61% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
MO: Trump 40.8% - 59.2% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
NC: Trump 40% - 60% of voters preferred one of the 3 others.
**At this point Rubio dropped out, but still with only Kasich and Cruz left, Trump still struggled to get 50% against the field.**
March 22 - April 19
AZ: Trump 46% - 54% preferred one of the others.
UT: Trump 14% - 86% preferred one of the others.
WI: Trump 35% - 65% preferred one of the others.
NY: Trump 59% - 41% preferred one of the others. Finally, after 3/5ths of all the states voted, and the race was over due to delegate count, Trump finally gets over 50%, in New York, his home state, which is hardly an evangelical stronghold.
Once the nomination was secure, then evangelicals who opposed Trump in the primary had a choice. They could continue fighting the GOP primary even though it ended, or they could decide to get what they could in the general election. Many never-Trumpers decided to continue to fight the 2016 GOP primary, and they continue to fight that primary to this day. But it is long over. It’s done. God in His providence over all the circumstances and choices made throughout the GOP process decided to setup Trump as the nominee. At the time I could not understand it. But rather than deciding that God got it wrong—that He shouldn’t have allowed it, most evangelicals decided that Trump’s promise to nominate conservative judges provided a worthwhile distinction between Trump and Clinton, and so they voted for him. Not because they threw out the importance of character, honesty, and integrity, but because these virtues ARE CRITICALLY important, especially so among the powerful judges who sit on the supreme court as well as the circuit courts.
Neither Clinton nor Trump personally possessed character, honesty or integrity. That was NOT an option on the presidential line of the ballot. But those virtues as represented by the forthcoming judicial appointments WERE on the ballot, not to mention the powerful positions of vice-president, secretery of state, and all the cabinet members. This last point is extremely important and often overlooked by never-Trumpers. The president doesn’t rule alone. The federal government, for better or worse has become huge, with numerous departments and offices. These deparements often wield tremendous power over how we live. They can declare, at their will, binding policy that we must follow, without any say from the elected congressional representatives. Trump cannot and does not have the power to put himself in all these positions. So he appoints people to these positions—people who do have character, honesty, and integrity. The life-long pattern of the Clinton family has been to appoint cronies to such positions.
In short, the 2016 GOP primary was a different election from the 2016 general election. The vast majority of evangelicals OPPOSED Donald Trump in the primary election, precisely for the reasons touted by the Never Trumpers—everything about his behavior suggested he lacked the character, integrity and honesty we would like to see in a President.
But in the General Election, evangelicals voted to get the most integrity, honesty and character possible, and so they voted for Trump, so that all the government officials, vice-president, and judges would be people who would be more apt to align with Christian ideals. Never Trumpers have never been able to see the forest because they are stuck six inches away from one tree that they will never allow themselves to look beyond.
I still don’t like Trump and I find him personally repulsive. But the election is bigger than one person. A vote for president is a vote for powerful federal judges, vice-president (who breaks ties in the senate), and a host of cabinet positions and departments, as well as the direction and usage of our armed forces. I will vote to get all the integrity, character, and honesty in leaders that is possible to get. This means I will vote for Trump, even though he personally does not square with these critical virtues. It is time to put the 2016 GOP primary to rest. It is time to get what we can, given the options that God has provided us through His providence.
Every interested American should read Fear by Bob Woodward.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
John,
Based on your life history I could make a similar argument about you regarding your current position. Now, I wouldn’t do that to you, because it would be very unfair and unkind. I recognize that God has changed you through unconditional regeneration as He has all true believers, and I do think you should serve the Lord in the position you are in and that you are well-qualified to do so. With Trump, I don’t see any evidence of unconditional regeneration, and that is not a condition for his position. He has a very superficial understanding of Christianity and at times an obnoxious personality. Nevertheless, I also see evidence of common grace in his life over the last few years, but not saving grace. But for the common grace I am thankful. Many of his positions on pro-life, 200 conservative judges, helping people out of poverty through good employment, supporting police, guarding borders, etc. are all sensible positions. I don’t know his motives for being President as you infallibly do, but nevertheless, I give him credit for the good policies, and fully recognize that he lived most of his life as a NY playboy, some of which he has expressed remorse over. Neither do I know all the motives of those believers who voted for him as apparently you infallibly do, but I assure you that my motives were for love of country and preserving our Constitutional Republic, though I greatly desired Ted Cruz to be the nominee. As Trump often says, you don’t always get what you want. A little humility here would go a long way. As for Joe Biden, I think he has some recent character issues as meticulously documented in Peter Schweizer’s new book Profiles in Corruption: Abuse of Power by America’s Progressive Elite. Peter has 70 pages documenting the “Biden Five” corruption during his eight years as VP. Also, Joe Biden, whose personality I generally like, is becoming a radical progressive and turning away from the conservative positions he held for many years. With Joe we get bad character, bad policies, and glaring incompetence via declining health. I don’t care for whom you vote or if you vote at all. A sense of fair play, however, would be appreciated.
Pastor Mike Harding
I appreciate your convictions. I just think you are 100% misguided and miss the point of a representative republic even in a Christian context.
By all means tell me what the point of a representative republic is. … maybe after that explain what that has to do with saying character is vital in 1998 (vs. Clinton) then saying it doesn’t really matter anymore in 2020. I’m all ears.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[Aaron Blumer]I appreciate your convictions. I just think you are 100% misguided and miss the point of a representative republic even in a Christian context.
By all means tell me what the point of a representative republic is. … maybe after that explain what that has to do with saying character is vital in 1998 (vs. Clinton) then saying it doesn’t really matter anymore in 2020. I’m all ears.
Aaron, first of all, you did not know me in 1998. You have no idea what I said or didn’t say. Why are you constantly asking me to answer for other people?
Second, Clinton had sex with an intern in the oval office. What has Trump done that compares to that?
Third, my point was something along the line of in a representative republic we pick leaders to do things for us. Or, if really desperate, to do the least harm to us. We vote to find servants of our interests, not mentors or examples of piety.
Fourth, as I have stated repeatedly, I contend if people stopped being so contentious with Trump, he would be more cooperative and amenable. Instead, he feels trapped in a corner and is fighting anyone who gets near him.
I have no idea what he was talking about with ingesting disinfectants and exposing ourselves to high levels of UV. That is purely dangerous. Weird.
But, politicians can be a little ignorant about such things. One famously asked an admiral if there were too many military personal stationed on Guam. The island might tip over. They were serious and not joking by the way.
I remember Don Lemon asking during the Malaysian Air Flight 370 incident if a black hole could have opened up and swallowed the plane. Reminded me of this cool 80s movie, Millennium. And, no, it has nothing to do with the end times.
It is because I care about character that I will vote for Trump. This is because the election for president is not simply a vote to decide which old guy will sit behind the big desk. It is voting for a package deal—a large collection of leaders. President, vice-president, a couple of seats on the Supreme Court, numerous lower court seats, along with other critical positions like Secretary of State, and all the department heads like commerce, education, etc., along with the direction and usage of our armed forces. When I look at the overall package deal, I believe I can get more leaders with character in all those positions by voting Republican for president. If you believe you can get more leaders with character in all those positions by voting for Joe Biden, then by all means vote for him, and we will just be in disagreement.
…right now I would put Trump’s chances at about 50/50. Much depends on how long the Covid-19 crisis lasts and who is nominated in the Democratic Party. I am not at all sure it will be Biden, who is right now battling a sexual assault allegation, along with the fact that he keeps struggling to express his thoughts with coherence. The election more or less comes down to PA, WI, and MI in that order. AZ is also in play, and if Trump loses that state, then he has to win PA and one of the other two.
If Trump does pull it out, then the door is open for the possibility of a 6-3 conservative SCOTUS for the next decade or more.
is who Biden picks as a running mate. I think most honest people realize the likelihood Biden would survive 4 years as president is moderate at best, and probably slim. So, his running mate matters. Right now it seems the two leading contenders the media (at least) promotes are Stacey Abrams from GA and MI governor Gretchen Whitmer. Without writing a bunch of details I suspect either would cause his national popularity to drop.
I suspect Mario Cuomo would also like the job, or maybe some other male. But I think the left in the Democrat party will accept no one but a female, and James Clyburn, the man who saved Biden in SC, wants an African-American.
I think you mean a different Cuomo!
anyway Biden is on record saying he would pick a woman. There were rumours a deal was in place to pick Amy Klobuchar, so we will see
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
Andrew I guess. The governor of NY.
Klobuchar… I don’t believe it, though she is the most sound and reasonable choice. Clyburn saved Biden. Period. He wants a black person.
Joeb, could you please provide the link to the article you refer to? Thanks.
Dr. Paul Henebury
I am Founder of Telos Ministries, and Senior Pastor at Agape Bible Church in N. Ca.
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