Trump must name and condemn the evil of white nationalism

"You could call the killer who shot up a Walmart in El Paso evil, a madman, or a lone wolf, if you like. But it would be an intolerable omission if we did not also call him a white nationalist terrorist. This ideology is a growing sickness in America, and President Trump has a duty to thoroughly and roundly denounce it." - Washington Examiner

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Mark_Smith's picture

In the infamous Charlottesville press conference where the biased media insists he said that "there were good people" who were Nazis and white supremicists. I listened to the full presser again today. He repeatedly stated that nazis and white supremicists were evil, wrong, etc... Repeatedly he says so. When he spoke of "good people" he clearly identified them as people who were against renaming the Gen. Robert Lee park.

At the end of the presser one woman reporter asks for clarification, asking, "are you saying that there were good people among the nazis?" Trump replies, "no". Keep in mind that this is after him repeatedly saying he was against the racists repeatedly. Don't believe me? Find it and listen for yourself!

GregH's picture

Personally, I couldn't care less what Trump said today. He said what he had to say politically. Means nothing. What matters is what he says and does when his back is not against the wall.   And in those cases, he inflames racial passions, refuses to condemn the racists among his supporters, and in general sets a pathetic example. 

Is Trump partly responsible for the shooting in El Paso? That question is over my pay grade. But for sure, he has not helped the country a bit in this area and he has attracted a lot of disgusting people to him. I took a visit to Fox News on Sunday and was horrified at the things many of his supporters were saying (and horrified that FN would not censor the comments).

Joeb's picture

I just read another story of an 13 year old boy being slammed down on the ground by a 39 year old man for disrespecting the American Flag at a fair in Montana.  No question regarding motive the aggressor told everyone why he did it right after committing the act.  The boy ended up with a fractured skull and needed to be flown to a hospital. 

White Supremacist killings now out number all others per year.  Like Greg said tying Trump’s statements to these killings is above his pay grade.  However Trump is not helping the situation.  Also if it’s a Muslim ISIS inspired killing Trump would be all over it.   

Lee's picture

One of the problems with living in a nation of laws is the limitations for reacting to a lawless action until that action has actually taken place.  While there are laws covering provable conspiracy, inciting riot, etc., that can be acted on to prevent greater law-breaking, there is no realistic way to exercise lawful, legitimate prior restraint based on what a person thinks or may believe.  It is the price of freedom.

So then the matter becomes a matter of justice.  We do not live in a tyranny where the perpetrator is punished and everyone who ever spoke, talked to, taught, or associated with him/her is also punished without actively law breaking.  

So what would justice demand?  According to civil and biblical law these guys should be put to death.  The Dayton shooter already is; the El Paso shooter will be (it IS Texas--they actually execute and will not miss the opportunity this time).

So the argument is not who's to blame. Everybody knows that answer. The argument is how much we throttle the freedom to speak and/or to believe in unpopular positions that may be espoused by a relative handful of crackpots who, for whatever reasons, go on these killing rampages.

I don't like Trump.  But he didn't cause this.  I don't like Pelosi, Beto, Bernie, or whoever either, but they didn't cause this. 

Let's focus on what is before us (justice) and legitimate means of prevention which does not include recklessly changing laws according to fringe agendas.

 

 

Lee

Aaron Blumer's picture

EditorAdmin

White Nationalism, Gun Violence, and Donald Trump’s Complicity

The kernel of truth in it, from my POV, is that Trump does indeed frequently pander to a crowd that overlaps substantially with the white nationalist crowd. And he should know better. I don't know if Trump is or isn't himself racist, but he has over and over and over again proven himself to be completely reckless and irresponsible in his communications on the topic.

So when he makes a few well-prepared, critical remarks toward the white nationalism problem, they don't drown out all the spontaneous affirming remarks he has made and is likely to continue to make.

Mike Harding's picture

Aaron,

Trump is not an articulate man for sure.  Sometimes he is a blowhard and very careless.  I certainly don't agree with everything he says or how he says it.  Yet, I do not see him promoting "white nationalism".  He is against illegal immigration.  Under his administration he legally has been immigrating 1.3 to 1.6 million into the USA per year.  These numbers exceed Obama's numbers on a year-by-year basis. Obama deported over 800,000 illegals.  I don't think Trump has exceeded those numbers either.  There is a significant criminal element involved in illegal border crossings from false claims of asylum, to sex trafficking/drug trafficking, to falsifying claims of parenting.  For security and economic reasons we must stop illegal immigration. Nobody has a right to cut the line and go to the front. No country in the world allows as many legal immigrants as we do.  I have traveled to dozens of countries around the world.  If I tried to enter illegally, I would be arrested, imprisoned, and eventually sent back.  Rightly so.  America has a right to protect its borders and insure the rights of citizenship as any other country routinely does.  That's not white nationalism; it's simply sound government.  The real threats of violence from Antifa, the left, and even from the recent words of presidential opponents ought to be referenced in the spirit of fair play, including the most recent public specific targeting of republican donors by a democratic presidential candidate.  Left-wing protestors are surrounding the homes of Republican senators and threatening them with murder, using voo-doo dolls to illustrate their wishes. Senator Paul had a portion of his lung removed from an attack from a leftist neighbor.  A left-wing zealot shot up a bunch of republican congressmen and would have killed many had it not been for the heroic efforts of the capitol police.  Not fair or reasonable to lay these recent shootings at Trump's feet.  There were many more mass shootings during the Obama era.  As much I as dislike and disagreed with President Obama, I would never accuse him of inciting violence that occurred in the leftist chants during his administration.  Nor would I accuse the same of President Trump.

Pastor Mike Harding

JD Miller's picture

Joab wrote,

White Supremacist killings now out number all others per year.

I did not realize this. In fact, I question it.  In case anyone else questions this, can you give me some sources in order to back up up this information?  

Larry's picture

Moderator

 I took a visit to Fox News on Sunday and was horrified at the things many of his supporters were saying (and horrified that FN would not censor the comments).

Greg, You recently questioned why I said you were liberal (or however you put it ... I don't remember exactly). I don't think you are liberal, but this, IMO, is indicative of a perspective that shows up other places as well... that you seem not to have one word of horrification (to coin a word) for the words used by the left, both in this case and over the last several years. Have I missed your condemnation of the rhetoric of the left? Have I missed your condemnation of those who vote for leftward candidates?

We have seen repeated attacks on Trump and the GOP using vile language. What is the effect of that on people? Doesn't that engender the anger and hate that the left claims to be concerned about? It appears to be a case of whose ox is being gored. If we are going to condemn hateful speech, should it not also include that coming from the left?

Is Trump a racist and a white nationalist? Perhaps, but my guess is no, not in any meaningful way. He is a businessman who is about making money. I imagine he cares very little for someone's race so long as he can make money. But from day one, there was a campaign to label him as a racist and it has stuck. There is little studied or serious consideration of actual facts. It is narrative that has been pushed without sufficient argumentation and evidence.

It just seems odd to me. 

GregH's picture

Larry wrote:

 I took a visit to Fox News on Sunday and was horrified at the things many of his supporters were saying (and horrified that FN would not censor the comments).

Greg, You recently questioned why I said you were liberal (or however you put it ... I don't remember exactly). I don't think you are liberal, but this, IMO, is indicative of a perspective that shows up other places as well... that you seem not to have one word of horrification (to coin a word) for the words used by the left, both in this case and over the last several years. Have I missed your condemnation of the rhetoric of the left? Have I missed your condemnation of those who vote for leftward candidates?

We have seen repeated attacks on Trump and the GOP using vile language. What is the effect of that on people? Doesn't that engender the anger and hate that the left claims to be concerned about? It appears to be a case of whose ox is being gored. If we are going to condemn hateful speech, should it not also include that coming from the left?

Is Trump a racist and a white nationalist? Perhaps, but my guess is no, not in any meaningful way. He is a businessman who is about making money. I imagine he cares very little for someone's race so long as he can make money. But from day one, there was a campaign to label him as a racist and it has stuck. There is little studied or serious consideration of actual facts. It is narrative that has been pushed without sufficient argumentation and evidence.

It just seems odd to me. 

Yea, maybe you are right that I show more annoyance with the idiots on the right. I am sure the far left has idiots on the same level of the far right. I don't read them though. I subscribe to the New York Times and I read CNN some. You probably consider both left leaning but neither allow comments so I don't see the great unwashed leftist morons. I don't watch news on TV at all. Fox News I do read and I often can't stop myself from reading the mindless idiots that comment there. And, after this last week, I saw many people pretty much justifying those attacks in those comments, almost cheering on the violence. FN was apparently making no effort to censor some very vile stuff.

So, again, while I know the left has its share of idiots, the ones are the right are the ones I am exposed to. Furthermore, since I have voted conservative all my life and most of my circle is conservative, I tend to expect more out of them. For that reason alone, I would say the idiots on the right annoy me more more than the idiots on the left overall. That includes the unwashed drones that parrot Trump's nonsense as well as the ones who are actually elected and refuse to stand up to him. Especially by the way those who are professional liars for Trump who claim to be Christians like Sekulow, Sarah Huckabee Sanders and the like.

 

Aaron Blumer's picture

EditorAdmin

When we're talking about things the President shouldn't be saying, bringing up things liberals shouldn't be saying is changing the subject. It's just not relevant. "They do it, too" and "They do it worse" in no way reduce the seriousness of the President doing it, whatever "it" may be.

A wrong is never reduced by someone else committing it also, or by someone committing a worse one. It can be made to seem reduced, but that's an illusion. It remains what it is.

Joeb's picture

I’m all in on what Greg said.  Bingo.  My feelings are similar regarding Trump.  However I’m not totally against all Trump’s efforts.  Unfortunately the Republicans don’t back Trump on his policies.   This could mark you badly Greg but I’m in like Flynn with your arguments.  Sorry Bert I’m usually all in with you because your probably the most logical guy on SI.  

Larry's picture

Moderator

When we're talking about things the President shouldn't be saying, bringing up things liberals shouldn't be saying is changing the subject.

Actually the conversation was about what Greg has been saying. He had asked me a question previously and then provided an opportunity for me to offer an explanation. 

To the point, however, it is wrong for people to blame Trump for the conversation without also acknowledging the left. The subject is things that are being said. Part of the problem in the larger conversation is an unwillingness to actually address the issues because of political sympathies. Just as Trump supporters give Trump a free pass, so those in sympathy with the left do the same thing. It shouldn't be odd to point that out.

Larry's picture

Moderator

I am sure the far left has idiots on the same level of the far right. I don't read them though. 

Fair enough. Thanks. I don't read or listen to Fox News (unless they are linked to somewhere else). I don't read the NYT once I get past the free articles and I don't read CNN. So I don't typically go to the sites you go to. In fact, I usually see only Drudgereport to see what articles might be interesting and then I see whatever people link to. I also check the Detroit Free Press because I live here. But by and large, I don't pursue news.