“If the NT required multiple pastors for every church, this passage would have said so – but it does not.”

[G. N. Barkman]

There is another often over-looked factor, namely, can a church afford a plurality of elders? It seems to me that a clear NT teaching that elders should be financially supported by the church, is often sacrificed upon the altar of achieving plurality. How does a NT precept get trumped by a NT description?

Yes! If you follow my upcoming posts at P&D, you’ll find that I make this same argument. The more I’ve studied this, the more firmly I’ve grown convinced of it.

[TylerR]

On the practical way for small churches to make plural elders work = both elders have to be committed to being bi-vocational.

I will suggest that Paul teaches quite clearly that the biblical ideal and norm is for churches to provide their pastors with full-time remuneration, presenting bi-vocational work as a necessary evil in certain cases. If - as you suggest - the Bible requires multiple pastors for every congregation, then this expectation should not *require* bi-vocational work. If it does, then the NT sets up two conflicting ideals, each of which cancels out the other. If multiple pastors, then full-time remuneration is not possible (in your view). If full-time remuneration, then multiple pastors is not possible.

Due to my personal schedule in the next two weeks, I may eventually (esp. Monday forward) be less involved (if at all) in this discussion string. Just don’t want anyone to feel like I’m abandoning the conversation if this happens :)

[TOvermiller] I will suggest that Paul teaches quite clearly that the biblical ideal and norm is for churches to provide their pastors with full-time remuneration, presenting bi-vocational work as a necessary evil in certain cases. …

I look forward to reading it. I take the opposite view - that full time pay is more the exception.

Overmiller wrote:

If - as you suggest - the Bible requires multiple pastors for every congregation, then this expectation should not *require* bi-vocational work. If it does, then the NT sets up two conflicting ideals, each of which cancels out the other.

The reality is that most churches cannot even adequately support one fulltime pastor. Bi-vocational is what young pastors should expect, going forward. Expect to lose tax-exempt status, prepare to not own a church building, and prepare to lose housing allowance. Prepare right now to not have enough people to fund one fulltime pastor. It’s gonna happen. Be prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to minister to a culture without enjoying the blessings of “fulltime Christian service.”

This is a pagan culture that requires a missional mindset.

My two cents!

Here is the link, for those interested.

Thanks. I never heard of using Diotrophes to support dual elders, so the article was a wash for me!

Tyler, that’s not the impression I received. I only saw Overmiller using Diotrophes to illustrate sinful, overbearing leadership.

Bro. Barkman, this is what I was referring to:

Those who insist that every church must always install multiple elders are sensitive to the need for pastoral accountability. They tend to distrust any form of leadership by one man and believe that multiple pastors are God’s mandated universal solution to this problem.

To underscore this sentiment, some may highlight Diotrephes. This man employed a domineering, manipulative leadership style in the church of which he was a part (3 John 9-11).

Check this one out

Remember, just because you never heard of an example doesn’t mean no one has ever used it!

heh

Tyler, you read the article more carefully than I. I stand corrected.

I know; no worries! Don’t think Diotrophes is a good argument for plural elders!

Not that it is necessarily a good argument, and it certainly isn’t Thomas’ argument.

I did a search on “multiple elders Diotrophes”

The link I sent was the first one on the list. There are more.

So some use it as part of their argument for multiple pastors, and Thomas points out how it isn’t a good argument. I’m not sure why that throws you off from the article?

The Congregation and its Relationship to One Pastor or Many Pastors

Sorry, I don’t know how I got confused, but I put this in the wrong thread. Glad Dan Miller liked it anyway.

The final part will show up next Wednesday, I’ll post a link then. Hopefully to the right thread, but it seems as I age there are no guarantees.

For those interested, here is the final installment

How Churches Provide for Multiple Pastors