Southern Baptist leader encouraged a woman not to report alleged rape to police and told her to forgive assailant, she says
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Paige Patterson no longer seminary president
https://www.baptiststandard.com/news/texas/paige-patterson-no-longer-se…
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure Patterson has ministered in a completely different context… No connection to Gothard, or IFB fundamentalism, or patriarchy, etc.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
John Piper grew up across the street the Street from BJU. Piper’s SBC Pastor father was best of friends with Bob Jones and John Rice and they shared similar beliefs
And this has exactly nothing to do with Patterson / SWBTS. Furthermore, Piper and BJU aren’t exactly the best of buddies either, even though they have very old links. According to Piper, it was more an issue / relationship between his father and the Joneses than him and the school.
You’ll forgive my skepticism of the ‘internal review’ at SWBTS. I’d be surprised if they find anything, and it seems like Patterson has already been given a platinum parachute. That being said, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered, and I think we’re just getting started.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Once you have clear evidence that your institutional controls have broken down—say your President is accused of ogling teen girls, tolerating domestic abuse and bragging about it, and keeping sexual assault out of the courts mandated by Romans 13—it’s time for an external guy. You know a priori that a quorum of people in your institution have trained themselves to look the other way.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
If what you have are accusations rather than facts, there is no basis for concluding that anyone has looked the other way.
Where you have facts, there is only the possibility that someone has been looking the other way.
…. for those interested in looking at these situations factually rather than presumptuously and/or emotionally.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[Aaron Blumer]If what you have are accusations rather than facts, there is no basis for concluding that anyone has looked the other way.
Where you have facts, there is only the possibility that someone has been looking the other way.
…. for those interested in looking at these situations factually rather than presumptuously and/or emotionally.
What part of “you can watch most of this stuff on YouTube” do you not get, Aaron? Sorry, but from what you can watch him say on YouTube alone, SWBTS clearly needs an outside investigator. Inside controls have clearly failed, and regarding the only thing you can’t watch on YouTube, the simple fact of the matter is that the new allegation is being taken (rightly) seriously enough by SWBTS to put him out to pasture.
This is many things, but “mere allegations” is not one of them.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
If what you have are accusations rather than facts, there is no basis for concluding that anyone has looked the other way.
Aaron, have you looked into this matter at all? I mean, there’s enough evidence for the Washington Post to run a major above-the-fold story on it. So why dismiss it as just ‘accusations’?
I get not wanting to rumormonger…but there’s more than enough stories out there (without looking very hard) to indicate that there were serious and massive issues with Patterson, SWBTS, and SEBTS. Furthermore, the Paul Pressler story hasn’t really even exploded…yet. But that’s only a matter of time, and it’s going to make these allegations look like small potatoes.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
I stated a couple of obvious facts, guys, nothing more. Read it again a little slower?
I’ll state one more obvious fact: if all the evidence is already known by all, there is nothing to investigate.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Just out of curiosity, which of these statements is false? And, no, I’m not talking about any particular case. I’m talking about all of them, past, present and future.
- If what you have are accusations rather than facts, there is no basis for concluding that anyone has looked the other way.
- Where you have facts, there is only the possibility that someone has been looking the other way.
- If all the evidence is already known by all, there is nothing to investigate.
It’s surreal how everybody keeps reacting to what I’m not saying.
As for all the scandals — yes, all of them — many of you don’t seem to realize that certain jobs are already taken: the job of investigating and prosecuting crime, the job of investigating and disciplining breaches of ethics, the job of judging people for failing to fulfill these responsibilities (1 Pet. 4:5) — these positions have all been filled .
What we can do is reflect and learn lessons about our own conduct. For those of us who are not legal authorities, board members, church members, or other constituents, there is nothing else to do.
OK, one other thing, pray. Pray for the ministries and leaders involved. Pray for the people who actually have the responsibility to deal with these situations.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Aaron, what you’re missing here is the simple fact that not only are the allegations clear enough for the board to move on them (and other SNAFUS involving Patterson) and “emeritus” Patterson, but also they are consistent with both Patterson’s earlier comments (“built”, “black eye”, check it out on YouTube) and other scandals in fundagelical circles. Regarding the current issue, here’s the comment from the SBC; note that it doesn’t say that he didn’t encourage a woman to fail to report a rape. It says that he complied with laws regarding mandatory reporting.
Now read that law section (courtesy Baylor) carefully. It regulates the abuse of children, not adults. So the allegations against Patterson could be 100% true and the SBC statement could be as well. In other words, the allegations are almost certainly true. Again, that’s why Patterson is emeritus now.
And in other words, it’s hard for me to dispute claims that this (and Patterson’s other peccadilloes) indicate a clear culture of cover-ups at the SBC. It’s one that moreover is consistent with what we’ve learned about SGM, ABWE, New Tribes, BJU, and others in church contexts, and about numerous colleges and sports organizations in the secular world. We have got to start waking up about this.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
So tell me again which of the statements I made are false? I’m not able to extract that from what you wrote.
And maybe you can also tell me which of these jobs are actually not already taken?
- the job of investigating and prosecuting crime,
- the job of investigating and disciplining breaches of ethics,
- the job of judging people for failing to fulfill these responsibilities (1 Pet. 4:5)
You keep referring to “we,” but I’m having a hard time seeing where “we” fit in.
I am certainly willing to say that there is sometimes a place for public pressure and advocacy groups in these matters, but for each of the many scandals, there are local ways to apply public pressure and advocacy that would be more effective than any nebulous “we” dispersed across the ether. Even moving beyond the stricly local, there are organizations and individuals that are connected to these situations organizationally in one way or another that would also be more effective than a random “we” (“we” is “people who are watching and think something should be done”?)
So who is “we” and why are “we” going to fix these problems better than others who are closer to them (vs. just getting in the way… or being completely irrelevant, which seems more likely)?
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
1. Since Patterson’s words on various embarrassments are out there on YouTube, and since the SBC statement on his ouster doesn’t address whether he encouraged someone to avoid reporting, we’re pretty much beyond saying “alleged” misconduct. Sorry, this is a real pattern matched by other misconduct in fundagelicalism.
2. Since the conduct is not alleged but is very real, we simultaneously have a very real question of why nobody spoke up.
3. Since we don’t know precisely what led to people not speaking up, nor of how to cure it, we do not know all the facts involved. A further set of (ahem) independent investigations is needed.
And not our business? Please. Christ’s people have a very important interest in the conduct of brother churches, especially inasmuch that a lot of what Patterson has said and done have become very significant in churches outside the SBC. This is not just a SBC or SWBTS issue.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
You keep referring to “we,” but I’m having a hard time seeing where “we” fit in.
And who is our neighbor, Aaron?
Aren’t we all a part of one body / church / new man in Christ?
If we can draw lessons from the PSU/MSU fiascoes, we could and should certainly learn from the mistakes of other Christian leaders. After all, they are held to a higher standard.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Jay, that’s a very good question, and it’s both raised and answered in Luke 10.
The Pharisee is rebuked because he is surrounded by people he has the power to help but wants to exclude them from the concept of “neighbor” because they’re Samaritans and other undesirables. The Good Samaritan is used as the means of rebuke because he has a personal encounter with a needy individual that he has the power to help.
So the passage gives us three criteria for who our neighbors are and when we’re responsible to act:
- Known need
- Proximity
- Ability to help
In these scandals, there is a significant absence of all three of these things in the case of persons who are not local, not constituents, not board members, not employees, not donors, not prosecutors, not legislators, not even advocacy group leaders.
As I keep pointing out, all the truly responsible and able positions in reference to these events are already filled. Those jobs are taken.
There are a couple of response strategies left for people who are not actually involved, though.
In the long run, to the degree this social problem has infected the church and Christian ministries, the solution is not coercive. That is, it can’t be fixed by pressure or force. It can only be fixed by changing hearts and minds. Conforming to regulations can’t go far enough in actually changing people. Public pressure is even less capable of producing lasting change. Rather, what’s needed is better teaching (better in content, better in delivery) to the rising generation of leaders.
… which may well already have been happening for a good while now.
For the “distant and not personally involved,” there is also prayer.
Beyond that, there is little for the vague “we,” scattered across the ether to do. The problems and victims will not suffer more if we focus our energies elsewhere, and we ourselves — and those we serve — will benefit more as well if we focus on our own responsibilities.
So the third response, probably the most important, is for each to set his own house in order, so to speak: to make sure that he is doing what he can within in his own sphere of responsibility.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
A social media campaign can indeed make a difference. No question.
What I do question:
- Does it make a good difference?
- Does it make a good difference that lasts?
- Does it make a good, lasting difference in a good way?
- Is there a better way to make a difference?
My considered opinion…
- Sometimes
- Rarely
- Very rarely
- Almost always
As for justice vs. the gospel, etc. … I shouldn’t have to say this. There is nothing in anything I’ve said that even hints that I don’t want justice. What I am saying is that the job of pursuing and enacting justice is already taken. Scripture assigns the job to the church (1 Cor. 6, 2 Cor. 5) the governing authorities (Rom. 13) and God (2Tim.4:1, 1 Pet. 4:5).
What’s happening in our culture is that we increasingly think that because every citizen has a say in the government, therefore every citizen has a say in absolutely everything. But this is not a good thing. Social media empowers ignorance more than it empowers knowledge — and for that reason, will increasingly lead to “movements” that are nothing more than digital mob riots. This is not good for any society, though, sure, we can all provide examples of isolated cases where it did some good. The anecdotes don’t prove anything about the right way to pursue justice, or even the most effective way (though these are two very different things).
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
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