Dave Ramsey and Financial Peace University: the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, Part 2

Read Part 1.

Author’s note: This critique has been specifically focused on the appropriateness of Financial Peace University as a financial counseling program in a local church. It does not evaluate Ramsey’s TV show, radio program or books, none of which I have ever seen, heard or read.

For all the benefits of Dave Ramsy’s Financial Peace University (FPU), I found several troubling problems with it. I addressed the good and the ugly in Part 1 of this essay. Now let’s look at the bad.

The Bad

When I mentioned to a friend recently that I was writing a review of FPU, he responded with enthusiasm that Dave Ramsey had changed his life. He explained that through FPU he had gotten out of debt, was saving for retirement and living a much more frugal life. When I indicated that my review was not likely to be favorable, he was surprised and a little defensive. Because he is theologically astute, I asked him about what I perceived to be the major flaw of FPU—the distortion of the gospel. He responded as I think many Christians would if asked that question: what distortion? I think it very likely that many Christians could attend FPU and not notice anything wrong with its message. The reason this is true is because most Christians do not have a firm conviction that the gospel ought to be central in any discussion regarding an issue of the Christian life. The gospel for many is about evangelism, not money, or sex, or parenting, or leisure.

A truly Christian viewpoint, however, sees everything through the lens of the gospel. This flies in the face of so many Christian attitudes toward everyday life, whether it be money, music, the arts, technology, or any host of cultural issues. The typical Christian response is to find some scattered verses and weave together a loose tapestry of references organized by his preconceived notions. To be truly Christian is to approach the issue from the standpoint of the gospel, and here is where I find FPU to be downright lacking.

First, when it comes to explicit references to the gospel, FPU is a disaster. In one video Ramsey tells the sad story of a young father who was diagnosed with cancer. By following Ramsey’s advice, this man had been able to provide for his family, so that when he died, his wife would not have to work, and his young children would be cared for. Ramsey proceeds to tell his audience that the man did eventually die, but it was “OK because he loved Jesus” and therefore we know where he is. This is the only reference to the gospel I could remember in the entire thirteen-week curriculum (although admittedly, I never attended the last session). My point is that this kind of reference to the gospel is weak at best and misleading at worst. If a church uses FPU as an evangelistic tool, it needs to be fully aware that the gospel will not be given in any recognizable fashion in the program.

Remember that FPU is marketed to other segments of society also, such as businesses and the military; and in these versions, all reference to Scripture and God are removed. If the only difference between a version of the course that is acceptable in secular settings and one that is designed for churches is a few Bible verses and off-hand references to God, how explicitly Christian is this view of money, really? But it gets worse.

In another video Ramsey actually directly contradicts the gospel when he mentions the various steps for getting out of debt. One of his necessary steps is to pray. Knowing that his audience is probably a mix of believers and unbelievers, he encourages them to pray nonetheless. He then tells his audience in effect, “Some of you don’t want to talk to God because you think, for whatever reason, that God is angry at you. God is not angry at you!” Now, if this video were specifically designed for an explicitly Christian audience, I would perhaps understand why he makes this statement. But after stating this, Ramsey in no way qualifies his statement. He simply proceeds to inform the audience that God wants to help them out of debt and that He loves them.

Some might object that FPU is a financial program and not a gospel presentation. While I acknowledge this fact, any time a Christian speaks about God or the gospel, his comments should be clear, complete and biblical. Defending FPU based on its purpose as a financial program is akin to defending The Shack’s heresies because it is “just a novel.” I would rather Ramsey left out all reference to God and Scripture than for him to obscure the gospel and place Scripture alongside other ancient wisdom as if the two are equal.

Second, and more significantly, Ramsey’s whole approach to money is counter to the gospel’s approach. For Ramsey, up is up and you save your life by saving your life. In the gospel, the way up is down and you save your life by losing it. Ramsey’s goal is never to have to worry about money again. The gospel way is to be willing to have your needs met day by day. Ramsey’s way is to be self-sufficient, relying only on your financial foresight, savvy and accumulated wealth. The gospel way, regardless of how much money one possesses, is to be utterly dependent upon God for everything. Ramsey’s way is one of increasing wealth which is a way to escape suffering and need. The gospel way is to expect suffering in this life and to be increasingly needy and dependent. Ramsey cannot conceive of failing to tear down one’s barns and building greater. The gospel cannot conceive of even taking a staff on the journey, but to trust that God will provide whatever is needed.

The gospel should change the way we view everything, including money. While many good principles are taught in FPU, churches and their leaders need to be aware of the problems with it as well.

Conclusion

Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University is probably most helpful for people in debt, people who have a good-paying job, and for people who expect that they will be upwardly mobile throughout their working years. It is probably least helpful for older people whose earning years are mostly behind them, for people who have significant uncontrolled expenses such as large medical bills, and for people who have committed themselves to full-time vocational ministry and don’t expect ever to make more than enough to survive.

Because I fall into these last two categories, I felt depressed at times during the course over my failure to make money more of a consideration in my career and job choices. Sometimes after an FPU class I felt like a fool for taking positions since graduation from seminary based on the question of whether my family could survive financially, because I felt God leading me. I have since fully recovered from this slight depression by returning to a gospel focus, and realizing that even if I have to work my whole life and die a pauper, if I lived for God, it will have been worth it.

Some might question why such an extensive critique needs to be written on something that I found so much value in (you do remember my early positive comments, don’t you?). I believe this kind of critique is necessary, because I believe we all need to be called back to a gospel-centered mindset. Recently a critique that Dave Powlison wrote of Gary Chapman’s The Five Love Languages (5LL) was reposted on the Internet, and it drew some criticism from commenters who wondered why Powlison had to critique 5LL according to the gospel. Why, they wondered, could he not just acknowledge the positive things in 5LL and forget the criticism? Powlison explains why in the critique: “When the analysis of what is wrong does not lead directly to our need for the person and work of the Messiah, then that analysis is shallow. The solution necessarily becomes some version of ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace.”

While there are many helpful ideas and helps in FPU, I’m afraid that in the end it presents a view of money, God, and the purpose of life that stands in conflict with the gospel. If a church is going to use FPU with its members, I would recommend a complementary study of a biblical theology of stewardship and suffering to buttress the weaknesses of FPU. If a church is going to use FPU as an evangelistic tool, I would recommend carefully screening the videos and excluding the controversial parts mentioned in this review. I would also recommend a supplementary clear presentation of the gospel to correct and offset the weak attempts made in the series. While sound teaching is a critical need in the church today, faithfulness to the gospel ought to be the standard by which we judge the value of that teaching.


Mark Farnham is Assistant Professor of Theology and New Testament at Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary (Lansdale, PA). He and his wife, Adrienne, grew up in Connecticut and were married after graduating from Maranatha Baptist Bible College (Watertown, WI). They have two daughters and a son, all teenagers. Mark served as director of youth ministries at Positive Action for Christ (Rocky Mount, NC) right out of seminary and pastored for seven years in New London, Connecticut. He holds an MDiv from Calvary and a ThM in New Testament from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary (South Hamilton, MA). He has also studied ancient manuscripts at Harvard Divinity School and philosophy at Villanova University. He is presently a doctoral student at Westminster Theological Seminary (Glenside, PA) in the field of Apologetics. These views do not necessarily reflect those of Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary or its faculty and administration.

Discussion

Romans 5:3

Romans 8:17

1 Peter 2:21

1 Peter 4:13

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

and then there’s Joseph suffering in prison in Egypt, and the nation suffering under the yoke of slavery in Egypt, and don’t forget Job!

Yet through all of the suffering God’s purpose is to bring glory to His name.

CanJAmerican - my blog
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whitejumaycan - my youtube

you missed it, at the lat class Dave discussed the ultimate debt being paid and to know Jesus the owner of the money we are stewards of..

I was raised a fundamentalist (by this website’s definition), and have practiced historical Christianity for most of my life. When my wife and I married a quarter century ago, we began our partnership by completing a Larry Burkett course on Biblical finance, and I have completed the Money Map Coach training program from his successor organization, Crown Financial. Our church has used Crown materials for many years. We are also, however, wrapping up our 4th Financial Peace University class in the past year covering over 150 students.

I preface my remarks in this way to point out that I have a reasonably fair and balanced understanding of Christian principals and of financial training products, both for-profit and non-profit, and it was with this perspective that I ran across and read this FPU review. I was hoping for a fair and balanced review, especially given the length.

I was disappointed.

Certainly Mr. Farnham is welcome to his opinion - I have no stake in the Lampo Group other than as a customer of 3 years. However, I believe the review is flawed in both theology and fairness, and although quite a few others have pointed to some of its flaws already, I am unable to restrain myself from addressing what I consider its most egregious failings.

I’ll quote the portions of the review that raised by brow, then explain why.
“If a church uses FPU as an evangelistic tool, it needs to be fully aware that the gospel will not be given in any recognizable fashion in the program…”
As many other posters has pointed out, the gospel is clearly and positively presented in lesson 13, “The Great Misunderstanding”. However, since Mr. Farnham admits “I never attended the last session”, he missed the key lesson.

This is much like a reviewer watching Act 1 of a two-act play, and then writing a negative review because the play’s conclusion was not satisfying.

Much worse, having been notified of this error well over a year ago, I’m dumbfounded that he would not correct his review promptly in the interest of fairness and honesty. FPU is a lifetime membership. He is more than welcome to this day to attend the missing lesson, or list to the CD with the complete audio that was even included in his membership kit. It would take less than an hour to be fair.

And yet, the above sentence remains. Odd.
“Ramsey professes to be a Christian and uses Scripture liberally… ” but the class only includes “… a few Bible verses and off-hand references to God…”
I literally laughed out loud at the obvious contradiction here. How can a class that uses only “a few Bible verses” use Scripture “liberally”? I’m not sure what point he’s intending - does it use too much Scripture or not enough in his opinion? - but to criticize it for both seems fundamentally unfair.
“Ramsey’s goal is never to have to worry about money again. The gospel way is to be willing to have your needs met day by day… Ramsey’s way is one of increasing wealth which is a way to escape suffering and need. The gospel way is to expect suffering in this life and to be increasingly needy and dependent…. it presents a view of money, God, and the purpose of life that stands in conflict with the gospel.”
This would certainly be true if the gospel prohibits wealth or exhalted poverty. Actually, after several years of study on the topic, I’m confident that the Bible makes no such claim.

If it did, King David (“a man after God’s own heart”) should have been as poverty-stricken as Mr. Farnham proudly proclaims himself to be. Abraham should have had little wealth and certainly nowhere near the resources to defeat the 4 kings of the east single-handedly. Nicodemous and the Samaritan of Jesus’ parable would have had no resources to bear on problems such as Jesus’ burial tomb and helping a man in desperate need of medical care. Job would have died in his ashes with his wealth unrestored.

However, as I read it, the Biblical consideration of wealth is as one possible reward for faithfulness, but always as a responsibility to be handled soberly as the Master’s steward. Consider:

Deuteronomy 16:17 “Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD your God which He has given you.”


Proverbs 3:9-10 “Honor the Lord from your wealth and from the first of all your produce; So your barns will be filled with plenty and your vats will overflow with new wine.”


Luke 6:38 “Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.”


Philippians 4:11-13 “For I have learned to be content, whatever the circumstances may be. I know now how to live when things are difficult and I know how to live when things are prosperous. In general and in particular I have learned the secret of eating well or going hungry of facing either plenty of poverty. I am ready for anything through the strength of the One who lives within me.”


Had Mr. Farnham bothered to complete the class he reviewed, he would have learned The Great Misunderstanding - wealth is not given by our Lord for the wealthy, but for those in need. FPU teaches how to live like no one else now so that you will be blessed to GIVE like no one else. That’s the summary of the entire 13 weeks, the pinacle of the class, and a great motivational sound bite to boot. Mr. Farnham (who like everyone else who has joined has a lifetime membership to FPU) should complete the final class and understand the point of his aborted 12 week investment.

He should also correct the misrepresentations in this most unfortunate post.

Dr. George http://drgeorge.org

Had Mr. Farnham bothered to complete the class he reviewed, he would have learned The Great Misunderstanding - wealth is not given by our Lord for the wealthy, but for those in need. FPU teaches how to live like no one else now so that you will be blessed to GIVE like no one else. That’s the summary of the entire 13 weeks,
If this is The Great Misunderstanding Ramsey talks about, it sounds like Farnham’s claim of omitted gospel stands. “Get wealth so you can give to the poor” is not the gospel. Perhaps there is more there?

If the summary of the entire 13 weeks is “get more so you can give more,” that’s well and good, but is not gospel.

On the other hand, I don’t personally see why a series on managing money has to focus on the gospel anyway. It does not claim to be aimed at converting people, and while the “why” of the matter is profoundly different for those who know Christ, the “how” of wise money management can work for someone of any belief system.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

[Aaron Blumer] If the summary of the entire 13 weeks is “get more so you can give more,” that’s well and good, but is not gospel.
Note that I never made such a claim. The 13th lesson presents a thesis that Christians should build wealth to use for God’s glory, including giving like never before, but that is distinct from its clear (IMHO) presentation of the gospel. I think it’s fair for a financial class to also talk about money, and not only the gospel.

I was responding to the criticism that I quoted: “Ramsey’s goal is never to have to worry about money again… Ramsey’s way is one of increasing wealth which is a way to escape suffering and need”. Both statements are blatantly untrue, and now you’ve set me off again! :-D

For the first, Mr. Farnham clearly didn’t read his textbook (pp. 27):
[Financial Peace Revisited] We Americans have identified a concept in the last 30 years - we all strive for it - of being “financially independent”. Independent of what? Can you gain enough money that you never have to be cautious or worry again? … I have never read about or met anyone who could hoard this much money… You must be careful of spending all of your energy and time trying to reach “financial independence” because this place is as non-existent as the god of that golden calf.
I don’t see any way to reconcile Mr. Farnham’s accusation with the exact opposite statement of the textbook.

For the second, rather than a primary goal of escaping suffering and need, Mr. Ramsey advocates increasing wealth specifically so that it can be managed to the glory of God, which includes giving like never before. The following quote (pp. 221) clearly lays out this thesis. You can decide if this philosophy is “ugly” as Mr. Farnham claims or not; I gave a brief justification for accepting it as Biblical in my previous post, though I have an entire set of Crown Financial Money Map Coach training materials that covers the same thesis in excruciating detail. ;-)
[The Total Money Makeover] If you are a Christian like me, it is your spiritual duty to possess riches so that you can do with them things that bring glory to God. The bottom line is, if you take the stand that managing wealth is evil or carnal, then by default you leave all of the wealth to the evil, carnal people.
Again, Mr. Farnham’s accusation appears to be the opposite of Mr. Ramsey’s actual written statements.

I certainly agree with your last paragraph, but note that Mr. Ramsey does present the gospel (the real gospel, not a social deviation) in the class anyway. I think he handles the message in a clear and non-threatening way, in context with the mindset of his audience just as the Apostle Paul seems to have preferred for his sermons, but if you have the CDs you can judge for yourself. I also find it interesting that he closes each radio show with the following statement: “The only way to true financial peace is to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus”. I think it’s difficult to argue with that thesis as well, and IMHO it nicely ties the financial talk to the big picture of the gospel (can a picture get any bigger?).

But I recognize that some people can find fault with pretty much anyone.

Dr. George http://drgeorge.org