Church Planting Thirty Years Later

In 1982 my wife and I planted our first church in Philadelphia – Faith Independent Baptist Church. The long church name seemed awkward back then but I wanted to be sure people knew up front where I stood. Fresh from eight years of ministry training at fundamentalist schools, I was a committed independent, fundamental Baptist. As extra insurance to validate my IFB credentials, I often added “militant and separatist” as well. The church’s doctrinal statement enshrined a dispensational hermeneutic essential for correct interpretation, the pre-tribulational rapture as the next event on the prophetic calendar, and the King James Version as the official translation. As a church we were known more for what we were against than for who we were.

Fast forward to 2011 where in the same city I am now working with a team of elders to plant another church in a spiritual wasteland where we parachuted in with a few families but without a significant core group. After thirty years of church planting I claim no special expertise, offer no guarantees of success, and sense an even greater dependency upon the Lord to build His church. Similar struggles, resistance to the gospel remain.

This one-year-old church is elder led, non-denominational, non-dispensational, and uses the English Standard Version. Much has changed. Most remains the same. I would venture to add that what is essential has not changed. In areas where change has occurred, thirty years of ministry, of study, of relationships, and of experiences have conspired to bring me to the place I am today. For many years IFB was all I knew or cared to know. Now I find myself rarely at home in this fragmented movement of competing networks. I find myself increasingly on the outside looking in. This is my journey, but I’m glad I was not alone.

After planting a church in Philadelphia from 1982-1987 my family and I went to France and then Romania in church planting and pastoral training ministry. Those years spent overseas provided opportunities for fellowship with believers from different horizons and spared me the need to engage in many of the needless conflicts being fought in the States. There was less need to conform to others’ expectations of what it meant to be safely within the fundamentalist orbit.

During that time overseas I pursued further studies with Reformed Theological Seminary’s extension in Budapest and in time completed a degree in theological studies. For the first time I was challenged from a different theological perspective by men with whom I had strong disagreements. Yet I was persuaded of their evangelical commitment, their love for God, and their commitment to God’s authoritative Word. I began to see that we could differ interpretatively and still enjoy fellowship in the gospel. I was moving away from former positions for which I could still argue but could no longer support biblically with integrity.

In late 1998 we returned to the States where I began a short residency in Deerfield, IL at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and where in 2004 I completed a DMin in Missiology. Once again I was struck by the combination of scholarship and godliness among the professors. There were differences in some areas but the centrality of the gospel transcended those differences.

From 1999-2008, I was missions pastor and director of church planting at a well-known suburban church. I travelled frequently and taught overseas in Russia, Ukraine, Lebanon, Peru, China, and several other countries. There were opportunities to teach in the area of missions and church planting at several schools and seminaries and invitations to preach at various conferences. My visits to China were especially revealing as we looked for house church leaders with whom we could partner for training purposes. I found myself looking for “significant compatibility” and agreement with the historic Christian faith rather than agreement with my convictions. My time in Lebanon among Arab believers caused me to look at Scripture afresh and contributed to modifications in my views on eschatology.

Some might find it surprising that personal experiences have influenced my theology to such a degree. In reality our experiences or lack of them have a great part to play in how we read Scripture. We read it with the eyes of those around us, those who trained us or those we look to for guidance. Our experiences should not determine our theology yet how we read and understand Scripture cannot be separated from our outside influences and experiences. Some may consider it a badge of honor to hold the same beliefs and convictions they held thirty years ago. While I can say that for the fundamentals of the faith, I must confess that second and third-tier commitments and interpretations are held loosely and are no longer a cause for separation or hindrance in partnership in the Lord’s work. Perhaps it’s partly due to the fact that I recognize it is His work not mine and that I labor in His vineyard not one of my creation.

On one hand, I have no argument with fellow believers who affirm their identity as independent, fundamental Baptists. I have no difficulty in seeing them as legitimate representatives of the diverse body of Christ. I have no reason to demean them or to expect them to cease being what they are. I have no desire to avoid fellowship and friendship with IFB men of integrity who are sound theologically and choose to remain within an IFB framework. On the other hand I find after all these years in ministry, with experiences and exposure to global Christianity, that IFB fails to describe how I see myself in my relation to the Lord, in relation to other believers, and in relation to the mission of the church.

The last few years have been especially decisive in the direction I have taken. When I returned from Romania in 1998 I knew that both I and the spiritual landscape that I knew had changed. Then in 2008, while temporarily living in France and helping to plant a new non-Baptist church, I wrote an opinion article on Fundamentalism. It was my way of signaling at that time that although I was on a journey out of Fundamentalism as I had known it, I wanted to remain friends with Fundamentalists. I began to write, to challenge conventions and traditions. I have not always been irenic and have not avoided controversy.

When I described myself as a “soft cessationsist,” questioned elements of dispensationalism, took issue with unbiblical separation, did not clearly espouse literal six-day, twenty-hour creation days, expressed my dismay at the paucity of resources committed to church planting, or challenged traditional thinking in the church’s engagement with culture, I found more criticism than interaction with the ideas. The criticism wasn’t about the gospel. It was mostly about culture, tradition and even personalities who thought I was out of line and should keep a lower profile.

Whether or not I should’ve written some of those articles for publication is another story although I have few regrets. I know there are some who are so much surer in many areas where I have questions. I know others who do not want to rock the boat and, to mix metaphors, prefer to fly under the radar. I suppose that would’ve been a safer route for me but that bridge has already been crossed. I must confess that I have found somewhat amusing the wide range of men who have disagreed with me, attacked me, or separated from me. There has been something for many to dislike although certainly not the same things.

I have no one to blame but myself although these experiences reinforced in my mind how important agreement is to Fundamentalists in areas where I believe we have scriptural latitude to disagree charitably. The agreement demanded by many IFB gatekeeper leaders, churches, and institutions in order to play in their yard far exceeds biblical teaching. The loyalty required by many in order to be safe requires submitting to traditional rather than biblical standards. It is not a virtue to have an inquiring mind in much of Fundamentalism. I had to decide whether I would shut up or speak out knowing that speaking out might marginalize me.

There are a few glimmers of hope as some IFB brethren have begun to break out of their isolation. I think particularly of Northland University which has invited professors from outside IFB circles and of Calvary Baptist Seminary with Mark Dever at their ATC Conference. Of course these moves have triggered substantial criticism from within IFBdom which comes as no surprise. Many IFB factions, which contribute little to theological reflection, brook nothing which deviates from their long-held conventions. I encourage those who choose to stay within the movement to continue their pursuit of God-honoring unity with those outside the IFB pale.

As for me, the time has come to seek to identify with men and movements which demonstrate greater generosity with dissent and challenge than I have found in my IFB experience, to identify with those interested in productive gospel-centered, church-planting partnerships, and God willing, to seek teaching opportunities to train men for next generation church planting. I have no illusions that moving on will bring greater resources or guarantee success in church planting. I’m not looking for greener grass. At this point any grass will do. I still welcome friendship and even partnership with my IFB brothers who have not drawn unreasonable lines in the sand. But I’m too old to jump through all the hoops, too ornery to kowtow and prefer relative obscurity and a few warm relationships to playing ingratiating politics and pleasing men.

Much has changed over the years but God has not. He is faithful and He remains the Lord of the harvest in these challenging and needy times, the ultimate Judge who knows the hearts, and the Accomplisher of His divine purposes. Before Him only I lift my hands, bend my knees, and bow my head.

Discussion

[Bob T.] We have seen your journey from certainty to increasing doubt in articles you have written and were posted here on SI. Such a journey has been taken by thousands since the 1930s and 1940s. In 1947 the journey was given a name by those who were taking it. They called themselves NEW EVANGELICALS. At least SI was able to give you a forum for your journey confessions. Your biography and destiny has already been written about in a book titled “Promise Unfulfilled, The Failed Strategy of Modern Evangelicalism,” by Rolland McCune. As it is often said; “those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” We will, and occasionally do, remember you and others like you in prayer. I have been on that other grass where it looks greener. It is full of yellow spots and dead spots with those getting more numerous and larger all the time. Better watch where you step. :cry:

But as they say in Philadelphia; “don’t let the door hit you in the back on your way out.” ;)
Can’t tell if this is a joke. Hopefully it is.

Dr. Davis wrote,
As a church we were known more for what we were against than for who we were.
And this article demonstrates that now he is known more for who he is than for than what he is against?

Ironically, he started his ministry with a position against what he believed to be unbiblical separation in that he claimed to be a militant separatist and even had “independent” on his sign, but since these former convictions created a perception that he was defined in terms of what he opposed, now, he continues to oppose what he perceives to be unbiblical separation (albeit a different position) and is thinking of encouraging his local church to partner with the EFCA, and we are to believe that he is no longer defined in terms of what he opposes?

No matter how hard he tries to escape all the “dogmatism” and perceived negativity, he cannot escape being defined by what he opposes, except now he is simply in opposition to his former positions.

I am still struggling to see the publishable value of this article. From my perspective the author basically communicates, “I have left this ‘fundamental’ world because fundamentalists are prideful, smelling of dogmatism in their positions. I continue to affirm the gospel, but I will not quibble over such minor matters as the continuation of spiritual gifts, the kingdom of God, or even whether or not the evening and the morning were really the first day, etc. If anyone still gets bent out of shape over these minor matters, I don’t have time for them anymore. Oh and by the way, while I still have the podium, if some of the finest churches in fundamentalism will still invite me to come and preach and influence the next generation, I’d love to. In fact, sign me up! I promise not to be controversial or touch on areas where there may be disagreement.”

My advice to the author, albeit unsolicited: You claim to desire to be under the radar (“relative obscurity” is I think how you termed it) and content with just a few ministry friends, but yet you took the time to write a polemic against the fundamentalism of which you have been a part, thus showing up on the radar? If you are going to leave the ‘IFB’ orbit, just go ahead and do it. But do it quickly. Do whatever it is that you think God has called you to do. However, leaving in this manner makes you look a bit ugly and even desirous to take as many people with you as possible. Go do the missiological work that you have done and for which you have trained, but please stop writing to us, if you are no longer among us.

[DaveMarriott] If you are going to leave the ‘IFB’ orbit, just go ahead and do it. But do it quickly. Do whatever it is that you think God has called you to do. However, leaving in this manner makes you look a bit ugly and even desirous to take as many people with you as possible. Go do the missiological work that you have done and for which you have trained, but please stop writing to us, if you are no longer among us.
The difference between you and Steve is that he can leave the IBF orbit [your words] yet still love those in that orbit and welcome their fellowship, even yours. The universe of gospel-centered Chrisitianity is large enough to contain your orbit and others. Unfortunately, some mistake their orbit for the universe and end up living in a very small world.

church - www.gracechurchphilly.com blog - www.thegospelfirst.com twitter - @johnpdavis

[DaveMarriott] Dr. Davis wrote,
As a church we were known more for what we were against than for who we were.
And this article demonstrates that now he is known more for who he is than for than what he is against?

Ironically, he started his ministry with a position against what he believed to be unbiblical separation in that he claimed to be a militant separatist and even had “independent” on his sign, but since these former convictions created a perception that he was defined in terms of what he opposed, now, he continues to oppose what he perceives to be unbiblical separation (albeit a different position) and is thinking of encouraging his local church to partner with the EFCA, and we are to believe that he is no longer defined in terms of what he opposes?

No matter how hard he tries to escape all the “dogmatism” and perceived negativity, he cannot escape being defined by what he opposes, except now he is simply in opposition to his former positions.

I am still struggling to see the publishable value of this article. From my perspective the author basically communicates, “I have left this ‘fundamental’ world because fundamentalists are prideful, smelling of dogmatism in their positions. I continue to affirm the gospel, but I will not quibble over such minor matters as the continuation of spiritual gifts, the kingdom of God, or even whether or not the evening and the morning were really the first day, etc. If anyone still gets bent out of shape over these minor matters, I don’t have time for them anymore. Oh and by the way, while I still have the podium, if some of the finest churches in fundamentalism will still invite me to come and preach and influence the next generation, I’d love to. In fact, sign me up! I promise not to be controversial or touch on areas where there may be disagreement.”

My advice to the author, albeit unsolicited: You claim to desire to be under the radar (“relative obscurity” is I think how you termed it) and content with just a few ministry friends, but yet you took the time to write a polemic against the fundamentalism of which you have been a part, thus showing up on the radar? If you are going to leave the ‘IFB’ orbit, just go ahead and do it. But do it quickly. Do whatever it is that you think God has called you to do. However, leaving in this manner makes you look a bit ugly and even desirous to take as many people with you as possible. Go do the missiological work that you have done and for which you have trained, but please stop writing to us, if you are no longer among us.
If there was no publishable value why waste your time writing a diatribe against it? BTW, I haven’t left the “fundamental world” and hold unashamedly to every fundamental doctrine of the historic Christian faith. There are fundamentalists who represent fundamentalism well. You do not and I would suspect that most would disavow your tone and caricature of what I wrote. You put words in my mouth about “fundamentalists [who] are prideful, smelling of dogmatism in their positions.” I may’ve just met one like that but I don’t think you represent anyone but yourself. And yes I will happily fellowship with IFB men who so desire. Sue me.

[Shaynus]
[Bob T.] We have seen your journey from certainty to increasing doubt in articles you have written and were posted here on SI. Such a journey has been taken by thousands since the 1930s and 1940s. In 1947 the journey was given a name by those who were taking it. They called themselves NEW EVANGELICALS. At least SI was able to give you a forum for your journey confessions. Your biography and destiny has already been written about in a book titled “Promise Unfulfilled, The Failed Strategy of Modern Evangelicalism,” by Rolland McCune. As it is often said; “those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” We will, and occasionally do, remember you and others like you in prayer. I have been on that other grass where it looks greener. It is full of yellow spots and dead spots with those getting more numerous and larger all the time. Better watch where you step. :cry:

But as they say in Philadelphia; “don’t let the door hit you in the back on your way out.” ;)
Can’t tell if this is a joke. Hopefully it is.
No, it is not a joke. It is said without any hate or animosity but with a realization that all that Steve Davis has written has been with an apparent desire to drag other younger Fundamentalists and Conservative Evangelicals into his world of increasing doctrinal doubt.

I have been in and among the world of NEW EVANGELICALS. There is little excuse for some of their acceptance except they view love as being that which is above truth. In so doing they not only diminish truth but redefine biblical love in a non biblical worldly manner.

As for Steve Davis accusation of throwing around the term NEW EVANGELICAL loosely? The very doctrines that he asserts that he has changed on are the very doctrines used by the NEW EVANGELICALS to describe their new mentality and openness. It is a sad scenario to see some in ministry change to more openness that embraces the exact definition of NEW EVANGELICALISM but then attempt to separate themselves from that historic term. Usually this occurs when they have friends or contacts who are still Fundamentalist or Conservative Evangelicals and they want to keep an open door to them. Instead, they should not let the door hit them in the back on their way out. Steve Davis has written numerous articles published here on SI in which he has been very vocal about his new found viewpoints. He has done so with an attempt to persuade others as one still in or sympathetic to historic Fundamentalism.

The term IFB has been used as an example of what must be left for this greater truth enlightenment. However, there are a wide variety within what some call IFB. Also, Fundamentalism is more than IFB. It does include independent Bible churches, other independents, and some Presyterians, that due not endorse those broader viewpoints on Charismatics, creationism, etc.

Due to time at Biola and Fuller, and some friendships since, I have more than a few very close friends and acquaintances who are other than Fundamentalist in outlook. Many meet the primary definition of NEW EVANGELICAL. We have, and occasionally do, have friendly contact and personal fellowship. However, I keep a distance in ministry cooperation and endorsement and insure that they do the same when appropriate. A Biblical standard Christian has a duty to protect the flock as admonished by Paul at Acts 20:17-35. This is the heart of Fundamentalism. It is a primary difference in ministry outlook between Evangelicalism and Fundamentalism.

It is sad when those who were brought up with a more Fundamentalist background, or whose first days of the Christian journey were under such influence, start rejecting doctrines that are clearly part of holding to a literal biblical standard. Christian Life Magazine published an article friendly to the New Evangelicalism in 1956 titled “Is Evangelical Theology Changing.” They described the views of the “New Evangelicals.” These included the views as espoused by Steve Davis as that which now describes his changed views. So Steve, if you cannot be described as New Evangelical than no one can and such a self labeled movement must have never existed. By your own confessions you are NEW EVANGELICAL. Why do you find it an offense to be called such?

You have expressed a desire to still be accepted by institutions and churches for preaching. You have promised to avoid any subject of controversy. However, has it occurred to you that your previous published articles have made you yourself controversial. Some on here have indicated they are your longtime close friends. I have a couple very close longtime friends that have gone on a similar journey as yourself. A few years ago I preached in the church of one. Since then he has changed even more. He now is open to Charismatics and present day prophets. Now I would never have him in my church pulpit and I would graciously as possible refuse an invitation to his church pulpit. I may attend his church as a visitor if in the area. I would seek fellowship and friendship with him and his family. But ministry ties are not any longer possible. I would hope you would respect the position of churches and institutions whose doctrines and views you no longer endorse and not accept ministry involvement with them.

So it is not necessarily unkind to ask persons such as yourself to not let door hit them in the back on their way out. It is probably the ethical thing for you to do. Also, do remember to watch where you step in that new green grass on the other side.

Now I get it.

1. I hold to the fundamentals of the faith but refuse to take a position on issues deemed important enough to separate over by some. I AM A NEW EVANGELICALL!

2. I hold to divine creation and the historicity of Adam and Eve but do not take position on the age of the earth and believe there are other legitimate viewpoints on the 6 days of creation. I AM A NEW EVANGELICALL!

3. I hold that God can work in ways analogous to what we find in the New Testament in pioneer situations in working miracles although I have no sympathy for the Charismatic movement. I AM A NEW EVANGELICALL!

4. I hold to the imminent return of Christ and to the establishment of His eternal kingdom and hold some future details loosely. I AM A NEW EVANGELICALL!

5. I hold to the unity of God’s people and although I don’t want to be identified with a movement I still seek fellowship in the gospel with individuals who remain in that movement. I AM A NEW EVANGELICALL!

Thanks Bob for bringing clarity to this and the 1956 Life article was a big help. BTW, to clarify an equally important point the door hits you in another place – not the back!

I have scanned the multi-verse, and in all possible universes that contain SI, this thread goes the same direction. Just thought you should know.

Steve, I hope, I really hope, that you do find meaningful association with a church, not a movement, where you can find support, accountability, and ministry partners. A non-affiliated individual is, in some ways, even more separatist than a separatist movement.

As I am moving to Philly, you may see me some Sunday soon at Grace Church, if that’s where you’re worshiping.

My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com

Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin

[Mike Harding] I have chosen deliberately to stay within those circles and use what little influence I have to improve ourselves spiritually, theologically, evangelistically, and intellectually. The grass is certainly greener on the other side mind you. Perhaps as Steve says things are that much better over there. Yet, I suspect that there may be patches of astro turf and plenty of fertilizer as well.
Hi Mike:

I only have fond memories of preaching for you at Men’s Retreats and Bible Conferences. You will always be loved and admired by me. I do appreciate those, like you, who can stay within the IBF movement and exert a corrective and progressive infuence and remain true to the gospel. Though I wish that staying it wasn’t at the cost of denyig Christian fellowship to others. We disagree on a many things though I think we could have healthy and friendly face to face discussions on them. But, I am sure we agree with so much more that would unite as brothers in Christ. You are a bright (I was going to say and ‘young’) guy. I would like to see you pursue fleshing out the relationship between between the doctrine of union with Christ as it relates to Christian fellowship. I love you, brother.

church - www.gracechurchphilly.com blog - www.thegospelfirst.com twitter - @johnpdavis

[Bob T It is said without any hate or animosity but with a realization that all that Steve Davis has written has been with an apparent desire to drag other younger Fundamentalists and Conservative Evangelicals into his world of increasing doctrinal doubt
And now Bob has the privelged insight in being able to judge one’s motives, but at least he does it without any hate or animosity. Really, Bob?

church - www.gracechurchphilly.com blog - www.thegospelfirst.com twitter - @johnpdavis

[Bob T.]

No, it is not a joke. It is said without any hate or animosity but with a realization that all that Steve Davis has written has been with an apparent desire to drag other younger Fundamentalists and Conservative Evangelicals into his world of increasing doctrinal doubt.

I have been in and among the world of NEW EVANGELICALS. There is little excuse for some of their acceptance except they view love as being that which is above truth. In so doing they not only diminish truth but redefine biblical love in a non biblical worldly manner.

As for Steve Davis accusation of throwing around the term NEW EVANGELICAL loosely? The very doctrines that he asserts that he has changed on are the very doctrines used by the NEW EVANGELICALS to describe their new mentality and openness. It is a sad scenario to see some in ministry change to more openness that embraces the exact definition of NEW EVANGELICALISM but then attempt to separate themselves from that historic term. Usually this occurs when they have friends or contacts who are still Fundamentalist or Conservative Evangelicals and they want to keep an open door to them. Instead, they should not let the door hit them in the back on their way out. Steve Davis has written numerous articles published here on SI in which he has been very vocal about his new found viewpoints. He has done so with an attempt to persuade others as one still in or sympathetic to historic Fundamentalism.

The term IFB has been used as an example of what must be left for this greater truth enlightenment. However, there are a wide variety within what some call IFB. Also, Fundamentalism is more than IFB. It does include independent Bible churches, other independents, and some Presyterians, that due not endorse those broader viewpoints on Charismatics, creationism, etc.

Due to time at Biola and Fuller, and some friendships since, I have more than a few very close friends and acquaintances who are other than Fundamentalist in outlook. Many meet the primary definition of NEW EVANGELICAL. We have, and occasionally do, have friendly contact and personal fellowship. However, I keep a distance in ministry cooperation and endorsement and insure that they do the same when appropriate. A Biblical standard Christian has a duty to protect the flock as admonished by Paul at Acts 20:17-35. This is the heart of Fundamentalism. It is a primary difference in ministry outlook between Evangelicalism and Fundamentalism.

It is sad when those who were brought up with a more Fundamentalist background, or whose first days of the Christian journey were under such influence, start rejecting doctrines that are clearly part of holding to a literal biblical standard. Christian Life Magazine published an article friendly to the New Evangelicalism in 1956 titled “Is Evangelical Theology Changing.” They described the views of the “New Evangelicals.” These included the views as espoused by Steve Davis as that which now describes his changed views. So Steve, if you cannot be described as New Evangelical than no one can and such a self labeled movement must have never existed. By your own confessions you are NEW EVANGELICAL. Why do you find it an offense to be called such?

You have expressed a desire to still be accepted by institutions and churches for preaching. You have promised to avoid any subject of controversy. However, has it occurred to you that your previous published articles have made you yourself controversial. Some on here have indicated they are your longtime close friends. I have a couple very close longtime friends that have gone on a similar journey as yourself. A few years ago I preached in the church of one. Since then he has changed even more. He now is open to Charismatics and present day prophets. Now I would never have him in my church pulpit and I would graciously as possible refuse an invitation to his church pulpit. I may attend his church as a visitor if in the area. I would seek fellowship and friendship with him and his family. But ministry ties are not any longer possible. I would hope you would respect the position of churches and institutions whose doctrines and views you no longer endorse and not accept ministry involvement with them.

So it is not necessarily unkind to ask persons such as yourself to not let door hit them in the back on their way out. It is probably the ethical thing for you to do. Also, do remember to watch where you step in that new green grass on the other side.
Bob T., I can’t respect your diatribe. If you were all I knew of fundamentalism, I’d catch the door about to hit Steve, then walk through it behind him. No offense, but that’s the effect of what you’re telling younger fundamentalists: it’s always your way or the highway. Therefore, it’s the highway. You’re probably doing more harm to your position than good in this forum by this kind of rhetoric.

Dr. Davis writes,
As for me, the time has come to seek to identify with men and movements which demonstrate greater generosity with dissent and challenge than I have found in my IFB experience, to identify with those interested in productive gospel-centered, church-planting partnerships, and God willing, to seek teaching opportunities to train men for next generation church planting.
[Emphasis mine]

But this church planter, half his age, challenges his article with a dissenting voice, and I get the following reply:
There are fundamentalists who represent fundamentalism well. You do not and I would suspect that most would disavow your tone and caricature of what I wrote. You put words in my mouth about “fundamentalists [who] are prideful, smelling of dogmatism in their positions.” I may’ve just met one like that but I don’t think you represent anyone but yourself. And yes I will happily fellowship with IFB men who so desire. Sue me.
Can anyone else see how this new m.o. defeats itself? Or perhaps it’s nothing more than smoke and mirrors, deflecting the attention from the real separation issues at hand.

Dr. Davis writes,
BTW, I haven’t left the “fundamental world” and hold unashamedly to every fundamental doctrine of the historic Christian faith.
Follow-up question for Dr. Davis: Do neo-evangelicals hold to” every fundamental doctrine of the historic Christian faith?”

I think we both know that what you’ve written is reductionistic at best. From my understanding, fundamentalism concerns itself with not only the belief of those doctrines essential to the gospel (fundamentals) but also with separation over those doctrines that extends even to those who refuse to separate.

I am saddened that you do not believe that I represent fundamentalism well. I can honestly say that I rejoice that the gospel is going forth through your efforts in Philadelphia, even if I have significant disagreement with you and the article(s) you have written, and even if I’d not be able to pursue a ministry partnership with you.

On the flip-side, I think your writing me off because of my disagreement (and perhaps the tone of my disagreement) to be rather absurd in light of your cutting comments towards others.

[Andrew K.] I’m a bit confused here.

I don’t see anything in Steve’s article that could be taken as a rejection of historic fundamentalism or even a willingness to work with those who reject the fundamentals of the faith. And yet some here seem to be dropping unsubtle hints toward slippery slopes and ready to commence a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunning] shunning .

Way to prove his point.

This is why the younger (and sometimes older) generation leaves you in name, Fundamentalism. Sometimes we really don’t understand who you are and what you’re talking about.
Well Andrew it is all rather clear historically. If you need to rely on Wickepedia then I would recommend further study of the issues from reliable sources. Fundamentalism is a label that has been defined by multiple historians and books as more than just adhering to the Fundamentals of the faith. It is Evangelicalism plus separation. That separation is to involve all that would be a threat to the flock of God (Acts 20: 17-35) To some is a false issue to speak of so called first degree and second degree separation. Today it also involves a movement that has come to represent those who believe in the inerrancy of scripture and a literal interpretation of key parts such as creation. Such conservative Evangelicals as John MacArthur openly and clearly reject the label of Fundamentalism for themselves yet take a much stronger stand on the issues as just outlined by Steve Davis. So surely there should be no confusion here as to the present application of the label of Fundamentalist. As for holding onto the so called younger generation, that is in the hands of God. Our first task is to glorify God through obedience to his word. To the Fundamentalist that obedience to scripture involves issues that are minimized by the Evangelical who is moderate or open. These meet the definition of the historic NEW EVANGELICAL as they described themselves in 1947 and after.

If you have not done so please read Rolland McCune’s book, “Promise Unfulfilled.”