Hello.
I am new on the Sharper Iron Forums. This is my first post. In fact, creating this topic was the catalyst that prompted me to join. Let me introduce myself. My name is Wyatt. I have been in Fundamental Baptist churches since I was eight months old. Even though I am what could be termed a “product” of Fundamentalism, I have always viewed the machinations of its institutions with interest. Bible colleges intrigued me the most. As a high schooler, I collected catalogs from the various IFB schools with which I was familiar. The days of robust on-campus enrollment seem to have passed, however. My church was closely affiliated with Tennessee Temple University during the Roberson and Faulkner years. We have seen what few young people leave our area scatter to many Fundamental Baptist schools since 2000. I have known kids that attended PCC, West Coast, Golden State, Heartland, Hyles-Anderson, Shawnee, and Crown. Most recently, we sent our first student ever off to Maranatha Baptist University.
None of these colleges betray their true states until it is too late. Shawnee’s closing was unexpected to us. We watched the demise of Berean, Clearwater, Northland, and Tennessee Temple. Without being pessimistic or cynical, how close are those that remain to shuttering? The members here seem to be very knowledgeable of the wider world of Fundamentalism. I was just curious about the schools listed below. How do their finances look? Enrollment? Stability of administration? Thank you for hearing me out. A know-nothing would appreciate some information.
Ambassador Baptist College
Appalachian Bible College
Bob Jones University
Cedarville University
Commonwealth Baptist College
Crown College of the Bible
Fairhaven Baptist College
Faith Baptist Bible College
Golden State Baptist College
Heartland Baptist Bible College
Hyles-Anderson College
International Baptist College
Maranatha Baptist University
Massillon Baptist College
Pensacola Christian College
Providence Baptist College
Discussion
NewI can only comment on a few
NewWe financially support Faith and follow the school closely
Faith:
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewMy brief take on some of the others
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewTTU Grad
A little history here. I am an MK whose parents only new about TTU and BJU. My older sister went to TTU, so I ended up there for Fall Semester 1975. I was nicely asked to leave at the end of that semester (something about obeying rules). I returned for Spring 1978, then transferred to Northland for Fall 1978 (my girlfriend was there), returning to Chattanooga but not TTU in the spring. We married that summer, started school that fall, then dropped out not intending to return. Did return though for Fall 1985 (me) and 1986 (wife), graduating in 1990 and 1991. I was there for the 5 Jennings years and thoroughly enjoyed those years.
Looking back, it is my view that if Roberson had relinquished the pastorate in favor of Sexton, there would not be a Crown College. Temple did not recover from Roberson’s hanging on so long, primarily because IFB schools depend on a single strong leader. There’s no place for a younger man to rise as the older leadership is unwilling to relinquish control.
Crown will likely have the same fate as TTU once Sexton is gone, as will many of the other schools in that orbit. I am very impressed with BJU and would be delighted if my granddaughters attended there in a few years.
Schools in KJVO circles will struggle as that is a dwindling movement, so less students to draw from, and they have the strong leader issue to deal with as well.
HAC had father/son-in-law leadership, so there was a natural carry-over and their downfall may be what keeps the school alive. Hopefully in 10 years nobody will remember them!
I have a nephew at Maranatha and hear good things about it.
The others I have no knowledge of.
p.s. if I had been the SC resident who was waiting for my $877M check I would be writing substantial checks to BJU, MBU, IBC (nieces attended there), Central Seminary (nephew is the President), and Detroit Seminary, but anonymously of course.
CanJAmerican - my blog
CanJAmerican - my twitter
whitejumaycan - my youtube
NewAmbassador
It’s enlightening to see that Ambassador still stands against the “tenants” of Calvinism. That, and an English teacher with a degree in Home Economics says volumes about their academics.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
NewIs there really a "Triumvirate"?
I have heard from many who are more knowledgeable than me that there is a ruling triumvirate in Fundamental circles: BJU, PCC, and Maranatha. Do these three really have the market cornered?
Also, did the losses of TTU, Clearwater, and Northland cause the seismic shifts in the higher educational realm that some people claim?
NewThink outside of the box (way outside)
Think outside of the box (way outside). Consider:
There is no “ruling triumvirate”. They have the “market cornered” like IBM has the mainframe market corned (they do) … but companies are moving swiftly away from mainframes!
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewBro. O'Harver
It depends. There are very different flavors of fundamentalism. For example, Maranatha’s constituency is very, very different from Providence Baptist Bible College’s! There are different orbits, and different schools hold sway in different orbits.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
NewRon Bean wrote:
While I would probably have to agree with you about the academics, as an Ambassador grad it still hurts to hear it said, mainly because I wish I had been able to receive a better college education.
I was raised in a rigidly fundamentalist home and was sent to Ambassador by my parents. It took 10 years after graduating for my wife and I to break away from that particular culture of fundamentalism, and it was not without its share of pain and suffering in doing so. My oldest son will be graduating in two years and Ambassador (or any of the others like it) will not be one of our recommendations to him.
NewNIU
I don’t know that the loss of NIU really caused seismic shifts in “fundamentalist higher education” as much as it exposed how much fundamentalism and fundamentalists had quietly changed over the years. There are a ton of threads on this site if you want to read some of them and see what I mean.
Jim’s original point then (about NIU having a bad business model) still holds true all these years later…and that was largely before the rise of online education for college/postgrad degrees.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
NewIt's easy to have blinders on ...
Blinders:
I’ve been in that trap: Thinking
^^^^^ All of the above … I formerly thought that!!!
I had a young adult whom I had discipled. He moved to the DC area (job transfer) and joined a GARBC church. I was very happy. Later he met with me and told me the shocking and tragic news that he had left that church and joined Capital Hill Baptist … a SBC Church. I was very disappointed in him. I knew nothing of CHB (fool that I was!!)
Before I moved to Minneapolis, the little I knew of John Piper and Bethlehem Baptist was all negative. We’ve been here 22 years … Bethlehem Baptist is alive and has an amazing ministry. I was wrong!
Larry Nelson’s article Fundamentalist Dead Zones awakened me to campus ministries and now we support two Navigators missionaries (who do amazing work).
I used to be totally against a plurality of elders and now I view my former position as ignorance. Great book here!
I used to view name change as compromise until my own church completed it!
I used to view “the label” “Fundamentalist” of vital importance.
Image of the day below:
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewMBU...?
Thank you all for the input. I am learning so much. Two more questions have arisen in my mind.
1). What about Northland’s business model was bad? Weren’t Northland and Maranatha very similar in their operations?
2). What is the overall consensus on the health and positions of MBU? I have done a little bit of digging, but I have not found any claims that have not been rebutted by someone else. The college looks quite classy to me. What do you all have to say?
NewBJU's annual budget & expenses per student:
As established in a thread on SI a couple of months ago, BJU’s annual budget is about $69 million, which works out to annual expenses of about $27,600 per student: https://sharperiron.org/comment/102300#comment-102300
NewThanks Jim
Jim is my brother from another mother. We’ve traveled similar paths and have worn similar blinders.
After years of wearing those blinders and becoming discouraged that the remnant group was getting smaller and often fighting among themselves over petty issues. a strong fundamentalist friend suggested we visit Capitol Hill Baptist Church. Our first Sunday there found my wife whispering to me to quit acting like I’d just seen a miracle and enjoy the experience. I decided then that if I planned to enjoy heaven with these people I might as well have a relationship with them here on earth. As someone said, “we still have fences but we build them low and we shake hands often.”
BTW, as to the so-called triumvirate of fundamental colleges, PCC is the one that is the most financially viable thanks to the business wisdom of the Hortons.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
NewOn MBU - use Guidestar to research the finances
https://www.guidestar.org/Home.aspx [it’s free to search but need to sign up]
The EIN is 39-1097032
Select view 990 tax forms
There’s a wealth (no pun intended) of financial information: Revenue, how much the President makes, etc.
Of course this is just the financial side!
Here’s my take (and this is subjective and from afar (although I have visited the campus):
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewNorthland vs MBU
Answers:
The campus is amazing: Hyperbole alert! Ice Age was filmed there!
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewSouthern Flavor
Sorry for the gross error in my thinking. The general consensus where I live was just to lump all the “Northern schools” into a hegemony that operated by the same standards. (The “Northern schools” was a term used to refer to all the “BBCs”: Pillsbury, Maranatha, and Northland. I knew no one even affiliated with Faith until five years ago.)
Thank you for the link. I will be sure to read it.
NewTaxonomy
Bro. Harver, here is a bit more about the spectrum of Baptist fundamentalism:
I hope this helps better explain the different flavors of Baptist fundamentalism.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.