Is it a good idea for Christians to carry concealed (licensed) handguns?

John Piper has started a ruckus with his comments against Christians carrying handguns and almost against self-defense.  What is your view on hand guns?

 

The assumption of the question is that those who would carry guns are properly trained, attained their guns legally, and have met the legal requirements in their state to do so.

Yes, the more Christians who carry hand guns, the better!
23% (7 votes)
Yes, if they sense a NEED to do so. But not necessarily all Christians.
58% (18 votes)
Only if off duty law enforcers, or in extreme circumstances, or particularly dangerous environments
6% (2 votes)
Unsure
0% (0 votes)
No, under no circumstances other than a job requirement
6% (2 votes)
No, not under any circumstances
0% (0 votes)
Other
6% (2 votes)
Total votes: 31
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There are 12 Comments

Shaynus's picture

I carry concealed anywhere I am legally and by policy able to do so. I quibble with the poll a bit. I wouldn't say the more Christians the better or that the good of carrying is based on NEED (in all caps no less). I wish more Christians felt the need and responsibility and that of those who rose to the challenge, more would. It's not an absolute in my mind that "the more Christians the better" any more than we need "the more Christians the better" as Sunday school teachers. That would be disastrous. These Christians need to be called and trained first, but it's a good thing to be called and trained. 

pvawter's picture

I agree with Shaynus. I can't support the idea that "the more Christians who carry hand guns the better," but I don't think it must be based solely on a NEED to do so. That being said, I think that those who desire to exercise their constitutional right to bear arms ought to do so.

Ed Vasicek's picture

Jim, the idea of having a gun at home for protection is quite a different issue.  I targeted (no pun intended) concealed handguns.  To others, sometimes in a poll like this, you have to choose an answer closest; pinpointed precision would require a wealth of possibilities, and there would often be something a pollster could not even think of.  You are not lying if you "round off" to the closest answer.

"The Midrash Detective"

Joeb's picture

As I have repeated before I have not carried since I retired.   Training wise for 25 years I combat trained and qualified with my handgun and shotgun.  For those who shoot handguns if you have great trigger control you will shoot better with a revolver because you can drop the hammer right when you want. If your like me and don't have great trigger control you shoot better with a semi automatic.  Anyway I choose not to carry but to me the need may exist ie cash deposits in a night drop etc.   To me each Christian has to decide on his own to carry, but do you really need to.  Short of someone robbing or mugging you or depositing cash at a night drop I personally don't see the need.  Usually if someone is robbing you they have the drop on you and when they are pointing the gun at you my recomendation is to smile and give them whatever they want  unless you know they are going to shoot you or someone else then you go for broke.  Believe me I have stared down the barrel of a gun and it's not fun. Better to talk your way out of it then go for broke.  That said I do have a couple of shotguns at home for duck hunting but I don't get out and trappe shoot enough.  Needless to say I missed two black ducks this weekend which should have been easy shots.  I get my birds here and there and I just like to be out on the water.   If my family had to depend on me for food we would all starve.    

alex o.'s picture

Joeb wrote:

As I have repeated before I have not carried since I retired.   Training wise for 25 years I combat trained and qualified with my handgun and shotgun.  For those who shoot handguns if you have great trigger control you will shoot better with a revolver because you can drop the hammer right when you want. If your like me and don't have great trigger control you shoot better with a semi automatic.  Anyway I choose not to carry but to me the need may exist ie cash deposits in a night drop etc.   To me each Christian has to decide on his own to carry, but do you really need to.  Short of someone robbing or mugging you or depositing cash at a night drop I personally don't see the need.  Usually if someone is robbing you they have the drop on you and when they are pointing the gun at you my recomendation is to smile and give them whatever they want  unless you know they are going to shoot you or someone else then you go for broke.  Believe me I have stared down the barrel of a gun and it's not fun. Better to talk your way out of it then go for broke.  That said I do have a couple of shotguns at home for duck hunting but I don't get out and trappe shoot enough.  Needless to say I missed two black ducks this weekend which should have been easy shots.  I get my birds here and there and I just like to be out on the water.   If my family had to depend on me for food we would all starve.    

Protecting innocents implies "need." I believe the old Wild West was much, much less violent compared to today. Someone should do a statistical analysis comparing these eras. During the times of Jesus, the Jews would often pick up stones (a plethora of stones were available) so they operated in an 'armed environment' one could almost say.

Also, a fine, argued rebuttal of pacifism (one of the best I've heard) is here: http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2016/01/swami-jesus.html

"Our faith itself... is not our saviour. We have but one Saviour; and that one Saviour is Jesus Christ our Lord.  B.B. Warfield

http://beliefspeak2.net

Joeb's picture

Alex the murder rates are actually very high in the late 1800s in the western and eastern cities and stay high right through 1933 as our culture became more urban. The stats for NY city in the late 1800s for murder and robberies and rapes are as high as intercity crime today.  Now if your talking rural areas and count shooting rabid jack rabbits maybe it was low in the Wild West. The murder rate goes down in the US after 1933 but starts an upward swing in 1960 and peaks in the 1990s.  Now we are in a big downward trend not an upward trend besides these mass shootings.   A good comparison of Intetcities one having more gun control and one having less speaks very loudly in favor of gun control.   The last few years NY City (More) and Philadelphia (None) have had abut the same number of murders.  If you consider the fact that NY city is 5 times the size of Philadelphia it speaks volumes.  The State of Pa state constitution says their shall be no gun control and the State has stymied Phila in any efforts to restrict gun purchases in the city.  If I had a Pa license or ID and pass the appropriate checks I can go to any gun store in Pa and buy 30 hand guns in one shot as long as I have the money.  So the gang bangers exploite this and get one of their many girlfriends to go buy guns for them ie straw purchases.  Phila wanted to slow the gang bangers down by limiting this type of purchase to one a week in the city and the State said no.  You can open carry a firearm without a permit anywhere in the state.  The laws are more liberal than Texas.  Believe me in the old days there was respect for the man on the street by the bad guys. Now my gun is bigger than yours and I'm going to shoot you if you  dis me on my turf. Most of the firearm murders or murders as a whole are the gangbangers shooting each other or intercity people preying on their own people in their community.  What's scary though is the biggest new users of heroin are white middle class suburban kids not intercity minorities.  The intercity people may be selling the drugs to these kids  but it's these new users who may become the robbers amd murders in the future in our white suburban heavens.  Also what is scary is white supremacist Clive Bundies son just seized by force of arms a federal building. What happens if Hillary wins are these guys who some Tea Party members have backed in the past try to get their way by force of arms.  Ask the families of the two Las Vegas Police Officers that two of these  nuts assinated what they think of gun control. These two went from the Clive Bundy ranch and killed the Police Officers after a week of Sean Hannity portraying Godly Clive as an American Patriot.  

GregH's picture

alex o. wrote:

 

Joeb wrote:

 

As I have repeated before I have not carried since I retired.   Training wise for 25 years I combat trained and qualified with my handgun and shotgun.  For those who shoot handguns if you have great trigger control you will shoot better with a revolver because you can drop the hammer right when you want. If your like me and don't have great trigger control you shoot better with a semi automatic.  Anyway I choose not to carry but to me the need may exist ie cash deposits in a night drop etc.   To me each Christian has to decide on his own to carry, but do you really need to.  Short of someone robbing or mugging you or depositing cash at a night drop I personally don't see the need.  Usually if someone is robbing you they have the drop on you and when they are pointing the gun at you my recomendation is to smile and give them whatever they want  unless you know they are going to shoot you or someone else then you go for broke.  Believe me I have stared down the barrel of a gun and it's not fun. Better to talk your way out of it then go for broke.  That said I do have a couple of shotguns at home for duck hunting but I don't get out and trappe shoot enough.  Needless to say I missed two black ducks this weekend which should have been easy shots.  I get my birds here and there and I just like to be out on the water.   If my family had to depend on me for food we would all starve.    

 

 

Protecting innocents implies "need." I believe the old Wild West was much, much less violent compared to today. Someone should do a statistical analysis comparing these eras. During the times of Jesus, the Jews would often pick up stones (a plethora of stones were available) so they operated in an 'armed environment' one could almost say.

Also, a fine, argued rebuttal of pacifism (one of the best I've heard) is here: http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2016/01/swami-jesus.html

The stats are widely available. The murder rate per capita in the US has plummeted since its inception and has never been lower than it is right now.

alex o.'s picture

Maybe Obama is right, too much cable TV (or internet news for me). I had no idea. These mass shootings seemed to contrast the lesser 'mass numbers' of the Old West. There were few mass numbers it seems to me comparatively to the shooting numbers today. I probably didn't realize the much lower population of the late 1800s. I personally did not look up the statistics is why the suggestion that someone do the analysis.

Still, I am going to protect my wife and self from random violence contra John Piper. The way I have looked at the biblical instruction is its reference to personal revenge. That is always wrong. Also, I am against any kind of Christian Crusading like during Medieval times of course. The military is another matter and I would have no qualms fighting for my country in lethal ways. Additionally, I cherish the separation of Church and State.

I trust God will give me the grace to die for Him (if it ever came to standing for the faith). I believe one way to prepare for this remote possibility is to die to self every day. Then, if tested, I trust to stand for Him ultimately. However, the blood of martyrs was the seed of church so the cosmic enemy instead accommodated and weakened the distinction by creating the State Church (Constantine) where everyone became a Christian without real faith.

At one time Christian Pacifism was attractive to me but upon examination, the concept lacked any real scriptural support. 

"Our faith itself... is not our saviour. We have but one Saviour; and that one Saviour is Jesus Christ our Lord.  B.B. Warfield

http://beliefspeak2.net

Joeb's picture

The largest mass killing to my knowledge in the old west occurred at Montain Meadows Utah. The Mormons massacred a wagon train of Christians.  I believe it was 100 plus men women and children.  They did this after making an agreement with the wagon train for a peaceful escort out of Utah.  The agreement was made under a white flag.  This is one of the largest terrorist attacks in American History and probably the largest I know of in the old west not counting Native American incidents perpetrated by our government or battles in the civil war.  

Joeb's picture

The largest mass killing to my knowledge in the old west occurred at Montain Meadows Utah. The Mormons massacred a wagon train of Christians.  I believe it was 100 plus men women and children.  They did this after making an agreement with the wagon train for a peaceful escort out of Utah.  The agreement was made under a white flag.  This is one of the largest terrorist attacks in American History and probably the largest I know of in the old west not counting Native American incidents perpetrated by our government or battles in the civil war.