Has your state been handling the COVID pandemic well?

Masks, no masks.  Don't worry about it, just like a bad flu --- or the end of the world.  Opinions run a broad spectrum. So does the suggested goverment response.

Has your state (probably led by the governor) chose the best course, in your opinon?

Feel free to opine, and, if you wish, mention your state.

Mine is Indiana, and I have a pretty positive assessment.

 

My state has handled the COVID pandemic in a pretty reasonable way.
36% (8 votes)
My state has been too strict, and businesses have needlessly suffered.
45% (10 votes)
My state has been too lax.
9% (2 votes)
Not sure.
0% (0 votes)
Other
9% (2 votes)
Total votes: 22
994 reads

There are 11 Comments

JD Miller's picture

I voted"

My state has handled the COVID pandemic in a pretty reasonable way

I almost voted other since we live in South Dakota and I would like to say our state has handled in an excellent way.  We have had one of the lowest rates of death and hospitalizations and our economy was not shut down and churches were given the liberty to make their own decisions about holding services.

Joeb's picture

My State of PA handled the matter fine.  Being that it has large metro areas that States like South Dakota does not have a stricter quarantine was necessary.   Look what is happening in Florida and Texas now.
 

 My County is Montgomery County and probably has a population equal to the whole state of South Dakota.  PA's rural areas are unlike South Dakota in that they are very populated.  PA has the most populated rural areas than any state in the country.  I chalk that up to the state having many more small family farms versus large corporate farms taking over a lot of the agriculture in the Midwest and West.  PA'S number 1 Industry is agriculture and Lancaster County and surrounding area has the richest most productive non irrigated farmland in the world.  

Those Amish Sure know how to farm.  The biggest legal cash crop in PA is tobacco and the second is mushrooms.  The Amish grow tobacco which is used as cigar wrappers.  

fsansone's picture

It is interesting to hear your perspective that PA is doing well in response.  I would tend to think the opposite is true.  

Pennsylvania has more deaths than Texas and Florida COMBINED - and their combined population is over 4 times that of Pennsylvania.  (Of course, most of the deaths in the U.S. have come from Blue states - the 22 states that have Democrat governors account for over 70% of the deaths). 

I believe we should take precautions and I am not saying that this is nothing, but I have a few particular issues with the way it has been handled in PA. 

1.  Governor Wolf has devastated the economy of Pennsylvania with arbitrary and overboard shut-downs.

2.  Governor Wolf has contributed to the high death rates by allowing positive cases back in the nursing homes - not as big of a problem in PA as in NY where Cuomo has a lot of blood on his hands.  Of course, this plays particularly poorly with Dr. Levine (head of the PA Dept. of Health) removing his/her mother from the nursing homes during this crises when many others could not do so.

3.  When the shut-downs caused about 1/3 of the entire PA workforce to file for unemployment, the unemployment system was discovered to be a mess and only made the problem worse (https://www.ydr.com/story/opinion/2020/06/01/how-did-pa-unemployment-fai...)

4.  While medical services like cancer screenings, colonoscopies, etc. were considered "non-essential", Planned Parenthood was considered "essential."

5.  His message on masks and church services have been inconsistent (at best).  

6.  He has responded pettily to his disputes with the Legislature - and, in particular, with Lebanon County - he made Lebanon County stay in the "yellow" phase with its total (at the time) of 40 deaths throughout the whole time (now 45) , while he allowed Philadelphia to move to green even though it had had over 40 deaths that very week.  The obvious reason being that Lebanon officials had moved against his earlier draconian shut-downs to try to open up sooner.  

I have mainly tried to stay out of this and I have actually taken some pretty good heat for my cautiousness and perhaps extreme care in re-opening our church, but I was suprised to see a "Wolf is doing a good job" answer.

 

Joeb's picture

PA NY an NJ were hit earlier and are very urban states and even the rural areas of PA are heavily populated.  PA Rural areas are the most densely populated in the Country.   So exposure first and density of populations has its effects.  Oh yeah let's see how Texas Arizona and Florida do now FRANK.  

Also FRANK I detect a political slant to your opinion to.  Plus you don't live in PA I do.  

So let's get political. Just to point out a very obvious Trumpeteer Church in Florida the  last  few weeks was holding parties to expose children to Covid 19.   One of the attenders to that party was a young lady whose mother was a big Right Wing Conspiracy Therorist NUT per her Facebook and a Trumpeteer.  The young lady survived cancer as a child and her immune system was severely compromised. That's what usually happens when you have a fight for your life using Chemo and Radiation.   The young lady should have not have been at that party in the first place and the Pastors should not have allowed such a party and if they knew this child's background that makes them all the more guilty.   
 

However the mother brought the child anyway and after she got sick the mother treated the child illegally with the Trump recommended Malaria drug and kept her home instead bringing her to the hospital. By the time they brought her to the hospital it was to late.

 In my opinion the mother and the Trumpeteer Pastors should be charged with manslaughter and do twenty years each.  Hopefully that will happen now that the matter is out in the open.  
 

 Oh the Expose yourself to the Covid 19 Party for kids was advertised in the church bulletin.  100 kids attended the one in question.  Food and Games.

 I believe up to Thirty Trumpeteer Pastors have died to date who preached Covid 19 was a hoax no worse then the flu to get Donald.  Some churches who refused to follow the rules got their members sick with Covid 19 and some are dead.   One church in CA got 180 members sick.  So Frank the strict rules were for a reason and TX AZ and FL are paying the price now for having lax rules from the start.  FRANK 40% in the overflowing hospitals Critical Care Units are in the 20 to 40 age bracket in those Republican States.  Even if they survive many will have chronic health problems the rest of their lives.  So those Republican states are not doing so good now FRANK.  How do you get around THAT FRANK.  Also most of the church Pastors  exposing their members were REPUBLICAN CHRISTIAN RIGHT NUTS.
 
Real patriotic and supportive of Donald Trump of that FL church and Godly wouldn't you say Frank. Also I believe a Whistle Blower exposed this although I may be wrong.  You know those people Donald refers to as RATS UNPATROTIC and Scum.  Of course church Pastors and leaders of Fundy/Evangelical Churches not reporting church crime to the Police has been a problem in matters of child safety FRANK.  We RIVAL the Catholic Church Frank and again most of the offenders if not all were big time Christian Rightees Frank ie PAIGE PATTERSON and a whole bunch more.  Never heard of Tony Camplolo having those problems FRANK.    As you can tell I'm no Donald Trump fan.  
 

Note: Tony Campolo just suffered a stroke so we should be praying for him.  Tony does preach the gospel and I know some people are not fans  of Tony Campolo here on S/I but I have heard him interviewed about his son walking away from Christ it was a very moving interview.  Tony clearly presented the gospel and his heart was broken over what his son did.  Plus I heard him preach at the Ocean City,  NJ Tabernacle.  Tony gave an invitation at the end of his sermon.   

fsansone's picture

Not sure what the reason is for all the YELLING,  but I find your response very telling.   (If you were a newbie, I might assume you do not realize that ALL CAPS is considered yelling, but since you have been on here as long as you have, I believe it is reasonable to conclude you are yelling intentionally.)

Joeb wrote:
Also FRANK I detect a political slant to your opinion to.  Plus you don't live in PA I do. 

First of all,  I actually DO LIVE in PA ( This is the first time i have posted on Sharpiron in a long time - and I have been quickly reminded of why - but I moved to PA in 2015.)  I have been following this thing pretty closely.  I was in Wayne county the day when the first confirmed COVID cases were reported in PA on March 6 - and Wayne county was the site of one of those first confirmed cases, with Delaware county being the other.  I work in the Lehigh Valley area and frequently drive by the hospital (St. Luke's Fountain Hill campus) where the first Covid death in PA occurred on March 18.  I live in Lebanon county and have seen the back-and-forth between the county leadership and the governor first hand and I am aware of the fact that over 10% of the Democrat state legislature joined the Republicans in passing HR 836 in attempting to end the emergency orders of the governors (which the PA Supreme Court ruled against on strictly partisan grounds - the 5 Democrats voting to overturn HR 836 and the 2 Republicans voting to let HR 836 stand). so you don't get to play the "I live here, you don't" card.  (By the way, that should not matter, since the discussion should be about facts and facts don't care if I live in PA or not, but since you brought it up, I thought I would clarify that for you.) 

 

I noticed you did not deal with any of the actual factual reasons I presented regarding why I was suprised to see your initial post saying that you thought Wolf was doing a good job and instead just attacked me on my "political slant", which you clearly do not know, since you then try to lump me in with "Trumpeters" despite the fact that I had already commented that I have been taking heat for being very cautious in the re-opening of our church, etc.  

Quote:
Also FRANK I detect a political slant to your opinion to [sic].
  

Thank you for detecting that - and then going off on a political diatribe for the rest of your post.  :) 

 

Just a couple of quick comments.

 

You commented:

Quote:
PA NY an NJ were hit earlier and are very urban states and even the rural areas of PA are heavily populated.  PA Rural areas are the most densely populated in the Country.   So exposure first and density of populations has its effects.  Oh yeah let's see how Texas Arizona and Florida do now FRANK. 

 

Facts are stubborn things - and they do not support your comments.  While the perception would be that PA was hit earlier, the reality is that Florida (March 1) had confirmed cases before PA (March 6) and Texas had its first confirmed case on March 6 - the same day as PA.  Also both states experienced their first official Covid deaths before PA - Florida (March 14), Texas (March 17), whereas PA's first was March 18.  I realize these dates are close, but the narrative that PA has only done worse than these two states because PA was hit earlier is demonstrably false.  

You are correct that density has an impact.  However, since the vast majority of deaths in PA are in the 5 county Philly area and then Lancaster and Pittsburgh area, the density of the rural areas really has little bearing on this discussion.  And considering the bigger urban areas in Texas (Houston, San Antonio, Dallas/Ft. Worth, etc.) are bigger than the urban areas in PA (Philly, Pittsburgh, Allentown) it seems that this argument does not actually work in your favor either.  

Also, I hope that I am reading this wrong, but I detect (see, two can play that game) a seeming gleefulness to your comment of "Oh yeah let's see how Texas Arizona and Florida do now FRANK."  I hope that is not really what you are feeling, as there are real people hurting over this pandemic and the idea that in order to score political points against "Trumpeters" you are wishing for these states to start having serious problems is disconcerting.  

As far as your other comments, WOW!  I am not sure how any of those things fit into a discussion about PA's response to the Pandemic -  "Trumpeter" Pastors,  crime reporting, Paige Patterson, Tony Compolo, etc.  I surely have not espoused anything that you are wailing against in those paragraphs.  

Joeb's picture

You were attacking the Democrat Governors only and their actions, which appears to me to be political. You go after just them without mentioning others.  Did they make mistakes yes, but so did others like our President which he will never admit it.   If I misconstrued you're motives I apologize   

If you are now in PA your bio does not reflect that.  I went by the info you provided.  
 

I don't want to see anyone suffer so your wrong there.  However it's the Christian Right Churches that refused to follow the rules and that's a fact you can't deny.   Plus Fox Limbaugh and the rest of the Right Wing media in the beginning tried to put out that Covid 19 was hoax no worse then get a cold to get TRUMP.  I'eve got videos of Pastors in big churches telling everyone to hug in support of our President.  So if they and their Pastors and Certain State Governors did not want to follow the rules recommended and they are paying price now and to come which is happening in FL AZ and TX and the numbers shift they have no one to blame but themselves. The Governor of TX and AZ  refused to allow local officials to put in more restrictions as they saw the most recent explosion coming so that's a FACT to Frank  So the Republican Governors made mistakes to    

I don't agree with all your Stats either. There  more to stats then just the numbers which l'll set forth below   

I take very seriously people harming other people for a false narrative put out by Fox and Rush Limbaugh at the beginning of this thing and you can't deny it's the Christian Right Pastors and Certain Governors endangered  people. No other churches had defiance in mind then the ones connected to the Christian Right.    

Remember it's the Florida Governor when this thing started who allowed  the spring break to go on.  Where do you think all those people went after Spring Break ie Home. The young people with Covid 19 are considered Super Spreaders.   Probably carrying Covid 19 with them.  So their go some of your stats.  You had more spreaders coming into places like NY NJ and PA.  

 Plus New York is as big as all the big cities in Texas put together all by itself.  Much more international travel into NY then FL TX and AR combined.  NJ has more people squished into its Northern half then most of large cities in FL put together.  NYC has 9 million people on its own that's not even counting the Metro area and Long Island.  My numbers are true to Frank.  Also NJ is most densely populated State in the Country.    
 

Also comparing PA to TX is like apple and oranges.  PA probably has the highest  percentage of elderly people in the country per capita. TX as a whole is a much more youthful population.  Plus the ones in PA in the Appalachian Coal Spine are all poor. Anyone with any money as a whole are in FL.   Plus I'm willing to bet a higher percentage of the FL elderly have a lot more money and not stuffed into federally subsidized low rent nursing homes.  All this plays into the spread of and deaths from Covid 19.  Philadelphia is a poor city compared to the cities in TX and FL.  Philadelphia has a higher poverty rate then the TX cities.  All these factors come in to play.  
 

My mother in law has money. She still lives in Clark's Summit.  There is no assisted care living places for her to go to, because the ones that exist are all Federally subsidized.  Her friends went into them and she wanted to join them.  I told my mother in law they wouldn't take her.  She got offended.  I told her it's not because she is bad person it's because you have to much MONEY.   The whole Wyoming Valley is just like that.  You'll never see more poor little old ladies on the streets of these coal towns in concentrations then in places like TX and FL.     Throw in Southern Anthracite Fields and the Soft Coal mining towns then you get the picture.  The hospitals in PA and NY were so overwhelmed they were operating with triage.  You know like combat.  Throw these factors in and your stats take a different turn. Plus Trump purposely shorted NY compared to Florida on Supplies.  The Governor of FL got everything he needed the quickest and when his numbers were lower.  Trump even said he did it that way because Como didn't speak nice to him.  The ship Trump sent to NY was almost meaningless because it was not set up to handle COVID 19.  By the time NYC got the capacity it needed it was to late.  Most of  the damage was done.  Also include they didn't even know how to treat it when it first occurred.  FL TX and AZ are just getting their first tastes of big numbers becoming to large to handle.   

JD Miller's picture

Frank, thank you for posting.  When it comes to politics things can get emotional.  I like to look at facts and data as well as specific policy that is implimented rather than emotion and character attacks.  That is why I am expecting we are not going to be too far apart in our political beliefs.  Even if we disagree I am confident we could calmly discuss our differences.  At the same time we should not totally ignore character when it comes to political discussions.  I am glad for Joeb's posts on this thread because it has revealed part of his character.  I hope many read those posts to know where he is coming from and thus read his comments in a more informed manner (his feelings about the Christian right etc).

fsansone's picture

Joeb wrote:
If you are now in PA your bio does not reflect that.  I went by the info you provided.
 This conversation is the first time I have posted here since we moved to PA in 2015.  I did not think of updating my profile to reflect the move.  However, now that it has been brought to my attention, I cannot even find where my location is listed on my profile so that I can edit it.  Maybe you could help me out?
 

Regarding Florida and Spring Break.  You are correct that it is possible that some of the Spring Breakers became Super Spreaders.  It is also possible (like some believe) that Florida got an uptick in cases from people fleeing New York to their second homes in Florida.  I'm not sure how we would be able to verify and quantify either one of those, however.  

Joeb wrote:
Also comparing PA to TX is like apple and oranges.  PA probably has the highest  percentage of elderly people in the country per capita.

Actually Maine has the highest percentage of elderly people, followed closely by Florida (https://www.prb.org/which-us-states-are-the-oldest/).  Pennsylvania actually has the 8th highest, so you are correct that it does have a high percentage.  However, it is interesting that of the 10 states that have the highest percentage of folks over 65, most of them have surprisingly low deaths per million (DPM) from COVID - except for PA and Delaware.  In fact, all of the other 8 states among the 10 states with the highest percentage of residents over 65 except PA and Delaware actually are BELOW the U.S. average for DPM (the current DPM for the U.S. is 413).  

Here are the current numbers.  In order from highest % of folks over 65, these are the Deaths Per Million.  (By the way, I was surprised at this, but I like to look at actual numbers on these kind of things.)  If I knew how to put it in a nice table, I would.  

1.  Maine - 83

2.  Florida - 191

3.  West Virginia - 53

4.  Vermont - 90

5.  Delaware - 531

6.  Montana - 26

7.  Hawaii - 13

8.  Pennsylvania - 542

9.  New Hampshire - 287

10.  South Carolina - 180

joeb wrote:
Plus Trump purposely shorted NY compared to Florida on Supplies.  The Governor of FL got everything he needed the quickest and when his numbers were lower.  Trump even said he did it that way because Como didn't speak nice to him.
  This is a pretty inflammatory statement.  I would love to see your source for this.  If true, it is unacceptable.  However, I couldn't even find the accusation through a quick Google search, so I would be interested in your source for this.  

joeb wrote:
The ship Trump sent to NY was almost meaningless because it was not set up to handle COVID 19.  By the time NYC got the capacity it needed it was to late.  Most of  the damage was done.

According to CNBC (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/17/nearly-90percent-of-the-us-navy-hospital...), that is not true. 

CNBC Article wrote:
"Shortly after arriving from its home port in Norfolk, Virginia, the military’s floating lifesaver was adjusted to receive coronavirus patients, halving its 1,000-bed capacity. As of Friday, 71 of the USNS Comfort’s 500 beds were occupied."

Anyway, this is getting pretty far away from the original topic, which was regarding how Wolf was performing amidst the pandemic.  You thought he was doing well.  I disagree and gave a list of reasons why I disagree. As far as I can tell, none of those reasons have been addressed, let alone refuted.  I have neither the time nor inclination to continue to pursue this, as I am sure I am not going to convince you and I am equally sure I am not going to be convinced by you.  

If you wish to help me figure out how to update my profile to reflect that I now live in Pennsylvania, I am open to your help.  Smile

Have a good night.

 

Don Johnson's picture

fsansone wrote:

If you wish to help me figure out how to update my profile to reflect that I now live in Pennsylvania, I am open to your help.  Smile

I think he's probably referring to your "About" page on A Thinking Man's Thoughts here.

Anyway, love to read you, Frank, you need to write more! Bring back the blog!

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

fsansone's picture

Don Johnson wrote:

 

fsansone wrote:

 

If you wish to help me figure out how to update my profile to reflect that I now live in Pennsylvania, I am open to your help.  Smile

 

 

I think he's probably referring to your "About" page on A Thinking Man's Thoughts here.

Anyway, love to read you, Frank, you need to write more! Bring back the blog!

 

Thanks.   I have been thinking about it.   

 

Bert Perry's picture

Has been doing a poor job, in my view, because they never really did much about the most likely paths of dangerous infection--nursing homes and public transit--but they shut down huge portions of the rest of the state.  I really don't see it as excusable to allow COVID patients back into nursing homes when they're not yet cleared of the virus--all the precautions in the world can be circumvented by that "clever" virus.

It's getting better, but a lot of people have suffered who never needed to.

Side note; if we will only learn, there are any number of things we can do in the future to reduce the likelihood of this blowing up again.  Reduce our dependence on public transit, develop new HVAC strategies to enhance laminar flow and reduce turbulence, reduce our dependence on huge buildings, etc..  I don't see it happening, but we do have the opportunity.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.