"The cost of sending a young person to a state university will, in many cases, be a life marked by ambivalence toward spiritual things"

As has been mentioned by others, Christian colleges are expensive compared to community colleges, but inexpensive compared to prestigious private schools. Christian colleges tend to cost the same as regular state schools. For instance, MBBC is $18,000/yr as is the University of Madison….other University of WI schools vary in price (i.e. Whitewater is much cheaper).

Why should we be encouraging nursing students (for instance) to pay $18,000/yr for a Christian college when they can receive a better nursing education at a state school for the same or less cost? Obviously, it is because of the religious instruction that we hope they will receive and apply.

Rather than trying to dabble in dozens of different majors (and the faculty and costs associated therewith), would it not make sense for Christian colleges to focus on a few things that they can do excellently (i.e. Bible?). Faculty could then work at “secular” schools earning full salaries instead of the poverty-level pittances that Christian colleges normally dole out. Two faculty salaries (about $75,000 total at MBBC) could then make a decent compensation package for a dedicated campus ministry staffer at a State School. Christian students would have organized religious instruction and there would at least be a possibility of evangelism.

The leaner, more streamlined, Christian colleges could focus on what they do best (Bible?)….I personally think that Christian students at secular colleges win because of increased evangelism (read: real-life), better educations, and frequently lower costs. Christian students at Christian colleges win because of academic focus and lower costs. Faculty win because they have increased opportunities to be Christians, better salaries, and better retirement programs. Obviously, faculty families win when their progenitors prosper. Society as a whole benefits from having hundreds of quality teachers with a Christian worldview in their classrooms.

Imagine the benefit of thousands of faculty and students shining forth the Gospel in a darkened world rather than cloistering it in monastic fashion in their private colleges.

Obviously, this not a detailed action plan…interact accordingly…

[Greg Long] So, how about interacting with the actual content of the article, including the studies cited, rather than just criticizing the source?

The UCLA research showed a significant increase in the percentage of students supporting legalized abortion (52 percent to 60 percent) and legal marital status for gay couples (54 percent to 66 percent) over that span.

The percentage of students who never attend religious services nearly doubled over three years, to 37.5 percent. Only 7 percent said they attended services more frequently than they did in high school. The percentage of those who agreed with the statement, “It doesn’t matter what I believe as long as I lead a moral life” grew from 51 percent to 58 percent.

The changes in the first statistic and last statistic, 8 percentage points and 7 percentage points respectively, when spread over three years barely rate as significant statistics at all. The gay marriage statistic is more reflective of the culture than indicative of widespread indoctrination. The actual numbers are not given in the attending services department, but I will guess roughly that the original number was 20 percent, leaving a change of 17.5 percent. Given the busy life most college students lead it is not at all surprising that many students, who probably were never interested in church to begin with, would stop attending. When you factor the number of students who attended more regularly you get a net change of 10.5 percent, which equals 3.5 percent/year. This is troubling but once again falls short in proving the case for systematic indoctrination.

These statistics reflect that college students’ values change over the course of their time in school, but would we expect otherwise? The thing that bothers me about this piece is the assumption that any change is bad. If you send your teenager to college so that they won’t change, you are denying the power of God in your teenager’s life.

[Chip Van Emmerik]

[Shaynus]

Some trust in chariots, and some in institutions of higher learning, but we will remember the name of the Lord our God.

The truth is that parents who surrender their kids to programs and institutions to raise them up will be disappointed. I grew up at Bob Jones since the day I was born. I have a group of friends that I grew up with some of whom are serving the Lord today, and others have abandoned the faith completely. There are PLENTY of students who go through state schools with their faith intact. It seems to me the difference is mostly that parents have to put teaching their children into higher gear: when they rise up, and going on the way, and every other time.

Shaynus,

While everyone agrees some Christians who go to secular colleges remain faithful to the Lord and some students attending Christian colleges abandon their faith, and everyone agrees that the primary responsibility remains parental, do think a young adult professing Christ is more likely to be discipled in the faith and encouraged in their sanctification in a Christian college setting or a secular one? With all the anecdotes about secular college successes and Christian college failures, that is still the core question. Which setting is best equipped and most likely to help a young adult continue maturing as a disciple of Christ?

Hi Chip, yes I think on the whole a Christian college is a better choice. What I’m arguing against is not an attitude of weighing several options in the balance and choosing the best one. I’m arguing against an attitude that puts trust in an institution to finish their kids into productive Christian citizens. Sometimes (sometimes!) Christian parents outsource the discipleship of their children to schools and even churches in an unhealthy ways. They treat environment as the controlling factor in their kids’ spiritual well-being. My experience is that treating environment as the key merely delays rebellion a few years. If a teenager is going to rebel or fall away from the faith, signs will start long before college, and Christian college won’t stop it. As I said, it will merely temporarily delay it.

If I were sending my kid to a Christian college, I would be almost as concerned that he lose his faith there as at any other time. I’m a Calvinist after all, and I would know that Jesus would have my kid’s heart, or not. If He did, he wouldn’t let it go. I have a sense that a parent who knew a few years out that his kid might be going to the University of South Carolina (instead of Bob Jones) would disciple his child more earnestly and deliberately, and tackle subjects he might not otherwise tackle. I would hope that parents sending kids to Christian schools would have more of the attitude of the USC parent in terms of discussing hard topics.

[Mike Harding]

Rebecca is on the piano music faculty at Hillsdale.

Tell her to say hello to my uncle Richard Gamble. He’s a BJU grad and history/political science faculty. Didn’t my Aunt (Judy) and Uncle (Ken) Endean know you at Troy? This would be Judy’s younger brother.

Why should we be encouraging nursing students (for instance) to pay $18,000/yr for a Christian college when they can receive a better nursing education at a state school for the same or less cost? Obviously, it is because of the religious instruction that we hope they will receive and apply.

Would a student really get a better nursing education elsewhere? MBBC has a top-flight, professional nursing program.

Maranatha is the only regionally accredited fundamental Baptist college to offer the Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN) degree.

Maranatha now has the distinction of being the only fundamental Christian college with overall institutional regional accreditation through the Higher Learning Commission that has a Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education (CCNE)-accredited nursing program.

The first-time pass rate for Maranatha nursing graduates taking the NCLEX (National Council Licensure Exams) has risen from 66 to 94 percent over those three years, thanks in large part to a curriculum overhaul that was part of the accreditation process.

A degree from MBBC isn’t like some other Christian colleges, where you essentially say, “Great, now I have my diploma! Now I’ll have to pray somebody actually recognizes it …”

I applaud Christian colleges that are competitive, or superior to, secular colleges on an academic basis. That makes the choice to go there that much easier. Just because a college is Christian doesn’t mean that academics, in any discipline, should have to lack. In the past, the choices seemed to be:

1. Send child to Christian college so they’ll be in a “safer” environment, or

2. Send them to State U so they’ll get a good education

Now, increasingly, Christian parents can have their cake and eat it too.

It would be a lot easier to get into MBBC than our local nursing schools. My wife is an RN and I also was pursuing it before I came to believe God was calling me to the ministry. If you don’t have a 4.0 GPA in college pre reqs you will not get in the first year. I assume that there is a an advantage there since people are not beating down the doors to attend Christian college.

HI All,

I do have a point to make about cost. I will say on the outset that my daughter is at our local community college on scholarship. And she will more than likely finish her undergraduate at a secular college do the program that she is taking. That being said, I do need to make a point about the cost.

Community college is cheaper than Christian colleges - no dispute. I would take it a step further than Pastor Harding did regarding the cost. Not only are schools like BJU (my alma mater) cheaper than their private counterparts. They are also cheaper than the state schools we looked at. For instance, my daughter will more than likely end up at Illinois State. Room, board, and tuition is about 22,000. Last I checked, BJ is about 19,000. Yes that is sticker price, but now that BJ students can get financial aid, neither will pay sticker. Oh and BTW, ISU is about what the other state schools in Illinois cost. Now, maybe my state is really high priced (it is) but it seems to be that their cost is cheaper than many state schools.

The reason they are priced so high is (like Pastor Harding said) is they have very little outside tuition funding.

OK all, back to your discussion. :D

[TylerR]

Why should we be encouraging nursing students (for instance) to pay $18,000/yr for a Christian college when they can receive a better nursing education at a state school for the same or less cost? Obviously, it is because of the religious instruction that we hope they will receive and apply.

Would a student really get a better nursing education elsewhere? MBBC has a top-flight, professional nursing program.

Maranatha is the only regionally accredited fundamental Baptist college to offer the Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN) degree.

Maranatha now has the distinction of being the only fundamental Christian college with overall institutional regional accreditation through the Higher Learning Commission that has a Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education (CCNE)-accredited nursing program.

The first-time pass rate for Maranatha nursing graduates taking the NCLEX (National Council Licensure Exams) has risen from 66 to 94 percent over those three years, thanks in large part to a curriculum overhaul that was part of the accreditation process.

A degree from MBBC isn’t like some other Christian colleges, where you essentially say, “Great, now I have my diploma! Now I’ll have to pray somebody actually recognizes it …”

I applaud Christian colleges that are competitive, or superior to, secular colleges on an academic basis. That makes the choice to go there that much easier. Just because a college is Christian doesn’t mean that academics, in any discipline, should have to lack. In the past, the choices seemed to be:

1. Send child to Christian college so they’ll be in a “safer” environment, or

2. Send them to State U so they’ll get a good education

Now, increasingly, Christian parents can have their cake and eat it too.

Yes, there are plenty of better schools in Wisconsin. Three nursing programs make the top 50…UMad, UMilw, Marquette….Maranatha didn’t make the list.

Maranatha has a good nursing program from what I’ve heard…but a nursing degree from these three places, for example, will be more robust and better received…

UMad boasts a faculty of over 80 …they’ve studied at top universities and research programs around the country. Maranatha has some wonderful, Godly, and knowledgeable faculty (4 members)…they don’t stack up to UMad…and they never would make that claim.

The fact that only 1 fundamental college has a CCNE-accredited nursing program proves my point…excellence is not the rule in these types of programs. Why should colleges spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to startup or maintain a below-average (or average) nursing program? I think that rings true for any number of majors. At the end of the day, we go to college to learn how to engage in a particular career. Everything else at the college is tertiary. Spiritual education is best accomplished through a vibrant, Gospel-focused church and personal mentoring relationships….and these can be effected on a secular campus while a student is receiving a better education. Because we are training young people how to live out the Gospel in an unregenerate world, wouldn’t it make sense to let them rub elbows with unsaved people during college?

As noted on another filing…state-campuses have a consistent Gospel witness in the form of numerous ministries. Many if not all of the horrors mentioned in the MBBC article are actually quite avoidable on any state campus. There is no reason to conclude that a Christian is “less safe” on a secular campus. So you’re right, we can have our cake and eat it too…

Here are some averages. Individual experiences may vary :)

http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/state-tui…

There are assumptions in the “secular college is fine” argument that I would like to challenge:

1. Students are being ministered to adequately in secular colleges by campus ministries. That may be true in some cases, but, no matter what the statistics say, it is “sink or swim” for Christian young people, especially if they live in the dorms. As one who graduated from a secular college myself, I saw plenty of them sink.
2. Campus ministries are an adequate replacement for local churches. There are a great deal of problems with parachurch campus ministries in particular becoming a replacement for the local church for students. It just becomes another age-segregated area that becomes a world in itself, much like many large church teen ministries.

I certainly made bonds of friendship with secular college students that I will have for a lifetime (and beyond). But when I look back, I am struck by how large of a group of students I knew that made compromises of their faith that were really harmful for them based on their time in secular college. What helped me more than anything was the connection to the local church. Not every (or not many!) churches have a proper vision for the campus in their town. It is a great mission field. But there are a lot of Christians struggling in them as well. And not much help in many cases.

Shay,

Ken and Judy worked with us for about eight years and then went to Maine. I will let my daughter know about Richard. I plan on visiting them this week. Small world.

There are assumptions in the “secular college is fine” argument that I would like to challenge:

1. Students are being ministered to adequately in secular colleges by campus ministries. That may be true in some cases, but, no matter what the statistics say, it is “sink or swim” for Christian young people, especially if they live in the dorms. As one who graduated from a secular college myself, I saw plenty of them sink.
2. Campus ministries are an adequate replacement for local churches. There are a great deal of problems with parachurch campus ministries in particular becoming a replacement for the local church for students. It just becomes another age-segregated area that becomes a world in itself, much like many large church teen ministries.

No one - as far as I remember - has argued that campus ministries are sufficient. I specifically noted that the kids in secular colleges that attend our church are the ones doing well. If someone is attending SUNY (for example), and they think that they are getting sufficient spiritual intake by attending CRU (or whatever it’s called), then I think that they are mistaken…and I think those are the students who struggle. I know I would, esp. if I’d gone to Rutgers or UPenn or someplace like that.

I certainly made bonds of friendship with secular college students that I will have for a lifetime (and beyond). But when I look back, I am struck by how large of a group of students I knew that made compromises of their faith that were really harmful for them based on their time in secular college. What helped me more than anything was the connection to the local church. Not every (or not many!) churches have a proper vision for the campus in their town. It is a great mission field. But there are a lot of Christians struggling in them as well. And not much help in many cases.

Agreed

Consider this quote from the article:

Henderson’s study of 16,000 students attending 133 different secular colleges showed that 52 percent of those students had left Christianity behind by graduation. Yes, more than half of students who classified themselves as “born-again Christians” upon entering a non-Christian college no longer identified themselves that way, or had not attended church services in the past year, by the time they were seniors.

What evidence do we have that the secular academy is responsible for this trend? I would guess there is a similar trend among 20-something blue-collar Christians who never went to college. Why should we assume that correlation equals causation?

Moreover, I would say that perseverance is the proof of regeneration. Perhaps those who truly and completely “forsake” Christianity during college years were never really saved in the first place, but merely going through the motions because they were expected to?

BTW, the “Study” mentioned in the MBBC article is actually a Ed.D dissertation:

http://www.christianconsulting.net/statistics/Dissertation.pdf

From it, we can see that the MBBC article contains a minor (in that in itself it doesn’t negate the point they’re asserting) factual error:

“Henderson’s study of 16,000 students attending 133 different secular colleges showed that 52 percent of those students had left Christianity behind by graduation. Yes, more than half of students who classified themselves as “born-again Christians” upon entering a non-Christian college no longer identified themselves that way, or had not attended church services in the past year, by the time they were seniors.”

The “133 different secular colleges” it mentions are actually a mixture of 133 public universities and private, religious colleges (as listed in Appendix A, beginning on p. 180). The “52 percent” figure mentioned in the article pertains only to the public universities among the 133 total colleges listed (see the top of p. 11): “Of the group that attended public universities…”

–––– Comment –––– the dissertation is worth a look

So maybe it’s more than just fundys who are concerned about the secularization of American higher ed:

http://www.albertmohler.com/2013/10/01/the-cultural-revolution-on-the-c…