"The night is coming. American Christians have been living as if the sun shone upon them"

At school, I overhear kids getting excited about meeting with their friends and doing activities sponsored by the Young Life group in our area. Good for them! I can name more than a handful of my friends who found Jesus through Young Life, got connected with great churches and are serving Him some 30-40 years later.

But are they being taught to resist the perspectives of secularization? If so, how?

[WBailey]

So the person telling us we should get rid of our computers says so from a …..COMPUTER, ironic:/

I find this funny as well.

I have to kind of laugh at all of this “doom & gloom”, and view of pending disaster. It seems typical within Christianity. If you look at Europe as being ahead of us by 30-50 years, than I am not too worried in my lifetime. Probably the most secular societies in Europe are in the North (Sweden, Finland, Norway, Netherlands and Denmark). While Christians there do not enjoy the heyday of Christianity that we may have had in the 30’s,40’s and 50’s, they are far from being “burned at the stake”. Sure maybe (and I doubt it), we might loose our right to Homeschool as is the case in Germany, but it is not the end of the world. So what if our kids have to go to a public school. If you don’t think God and a strong Christian Home can rebuff the world, than I don’t know what to say.

I say bring it on! We have had it too soft anyway for way too long. In reality, looking at the whole time of the world, we have been living in a small slice of isolated Christianity in a small slice of the world. God is Sovereign, He has given us all the tools needed in order to withstand the world and the Church will not be destroyed. Who cares about the changing tides of this world and it’s master. We are nowhere near the persecution the 1st century church endured. They might even laugh if they were around and heard us calling this persecution.

Jesus and the apostles challenged God’s people to take it seriously when they see things changing. So, it does require more than a simple “bring it on.”

I also believe that the persecution of believers in the world today is as serious as it was in the first century in many places. Men like Elwood McQuaid from the Friends of Israel Gospel ministry are reporting more Christian martyrs in the last century than in all of the previous centuries combined.

[Jim] What happened 3 generations ago? How long a generation? (I’m thinking 25 yrs …. but I can’t figure out what happened 75 yrs ago)

(bullet point removal mine ;) )

How long ago was it that the fundamentalists split from their apostasizing conventions/denominations and (as one thesis paper from a master’s candidate at Central put it) sought to take refuge from the tide of modernist thought in “safety” of popular/pop culture?

Do you even know what you’re asking for?

Our forefathers were beheaded, burned alive, skinned, and used for torches. Our sisters were raped and disembowled rather than deny Christ. Our children were kidnapped and given to the unsaved for raising after their parents were killed.

And you want God to bring this on? Do you even know what you’re asking?

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

First, we are not talking about being ripped apart and disemboweld. We sit in our lounge chairs, worship in our multimillion dollar buildings, and when a law is passed that legalizes gay marriage, we cry out “Persecution”. In America, our faith is rarely tested. Our car breaks down, and we treat that as a major challenge of our faith. The church is filled with chaff from easy-believism, and weak faith. We are nowhere close to being thrown to lions, put to death, or have the government create labor camps for Christians. Are there places like that in this world? Sure. But that is not the paradigm shift that we are facing in the next 50 years in the US. We do need some challenges. What is our faith, if it is not challenged.

What I read is, “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you”

or, “For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong”.

Why? “that we may share His holiness.”

Am I saying, bring on death camps, hangings, slaughter of our families? No. But I don’t think a paradigm shift is all that to be worried about. If we really feel that, our air conditioner breaking, is this all powerful test of faith, than our churches are doomed. Do we have faith if we cannot stand in the face of impending doom, willing to give it all up for our Lord and Savior.

My statement of “Bring it On”, is not a call to God to unleash judgement. It is a statement that reflects that 1) the paradigm shift has already started, 2) the Scripture is clear that it is the natural direction of man, and 3) persecution is not something to be feared. Why should we be “doom & gloom” Christians, just because our glass bubble that we are so insulated by in America is showing a few cracks. As Dr. Bauder states, we must view ourselves as Daniel , as exiles in a brutal and foreign land - just as they should have all along”. We have been shielded because we have chosen to politicize Christianity in America. One of the most secular nations in the world (which is where I see America going) - Denmark, still allows freedom of religion. Is it always easy to spread the gospel? No. I have been there and done that. But no one is getting burned at the stake.

So before we jump to extreme conclusions and a doom and gloom perspective that Christians in America love to jump to, we should take a deep breath and think logically about where we are going, and what is the real impact.

I said:

At school, I overhear kids getting excited about meeting with their friends and doing activities sponsored by the Young Life group in our area. Good for them! I can name more than a handful of my friends who found Jesus through Young Life, got connected with great churches and are serving Him some 30-40 years later.

Brenda T said:


But are they being taught to resist the perspectives of secularization? If so, how?

* * * *

What perspectives of secularization? ropes courses, skits, having fun with teens? I have seen Young Life as an opportunity to reach teens who might otherwise not be reached because their parents do not attend church/not Believers.

As I said, the ones I am familiar with are serving Him some 30-40 years later, very active in ministry at their local church.

From the article:

For at least three generations, American Christians have tried to teach their children the meaning of Christianity by offering them fun and games. This program has left increasing numbers of young people unable to resist the perspectives of secularization.

Ropes courses, skits, etc. are not the “perspectives of secularization” they are the “fun and games” referred to in the article.

No one has said that people are not being saved or that they are not active in churches. The author simply said:

The American church has won more and more young people to less and less Christianity.

In case you were asking what is meant by secularization, I point you to this part of the article.

American Christianity has operated throughout its entire history with what could be called a “daylight paradigm.” It has been able to adopt the basic assumption that most Westerners—and especially most Americans—had significant exposure to biblical ideas and held a generally Judeo-Christian understanding of virtue. It has been able to assume that a broadly Christian outlook occupied the cultural high ground, if not in the centers of power, at least among the masses. American Christians have been able to leverage this Christian consensus into significant ecclesiastical success and even into political influence. They have been able to appeal to what Jerry Falwell called a Moral Majority.

From every indication, those days are now past. The cultural momentum has shifted toward a radicalized version of secularism and pluralism, with even the most generic Christianity representing a minority perspective. Repressive legislation and public policies are already being implemented and Christians are being forced to treat moral impossibilities as if they were realities. Already governments are employing the use of force to deprive Christians of their livelihoods if they will not participate in the charade.

Brenda said: Ropes courses, skits, etc. are not the “perspectives of secularization” they are the “fun and games” referred to in the article.

No one has said that people are not being saved or that they are not active in churches. The author simply said:

The American church has won more and more young people to less and less Christianity.

Ok, so whose fault is that? Young Life’s? It seems Young Life introduces young teens to the gospel Christianity. So what happens next? Are you asking the same question to anyone else besides Young Life?

But are they being taught to resist the perspectives of secularization? If so, how?

I trust you had a good Lord’s Day yesterday.

If you are asking whose fault it is that “The American church has won more and more young people to less and less Christianity” the answer appears to be in that entire paragraph of the article. It is the fault of the American church and American Christians who “have tried to teach their children the meaning of Christianity by offering them fun and games.”

The question about if “fun and games” teaches people to “resist the perspectives of secularization” is an equal opportunity question for anyone who defends that as a means of properly equipping and training young people for Christian living. It’s a question I have to ask myself.

Consider this from the article:

Under this altered perspective, Christians must not view themselves as Moses, leading a nation into the promised land. They must not even view themselves as Elijah, calling a chosen people to repentance. They must view themselves as Mordecai or Daniel, as exiles in a brutal and foreign land—just as they should have all along.

How were Mordecai and Daniel prepared for the brutality they faced in a foreign land? Was it through “fun and games” or something else?

You’re missing the point, Brenda. Did the “fun and games” at Young Life give access to a group of kids that otherwise may have not had the opportunity to even be exposed to Christians?

After the kids then find Jesus, then what? Young Life is not a church. After that point, after the teens then feel comfortable going to church, I think it is the church who should be feeding/nurturing that young Believer, no?

I just hate to see bashing of Young Life when I have seen that organization work as a stepping stone to a deeper walk with the Lord as the baton passes to a mentor/discipler/church pastor to disciple the teen.

Have I implied staying at the “fun and games” stage is a good thing? Where is that coming from?

I’ve been aiming to stick to the point of the article.

No one here has bashed Young Life. I believe it was Wayne who mentioned that group because their website says they have “an emphasis on showing kids that faith in God can be not only fun, but exhilarating and life changing.” I believe Wayne brought it up as a question — wondering if that’s the type of thing being referred to in the article.

Julie Anne, when you started posting comments in defense of Young Life (and their use of fun and games), I thought you could provide us with some insight as to how they are equipping young people to resist the perspectives of secularization. That was why I asked if you could elaborate on how they are doing that.

As to your “then what?” or “what next?” question, I think the article has answered that and that the proposed solution is for Christians, churches and/or parachurch organizations.

The time has come to abandon the daylight paradigm and to adopt the paradigm of the Dark Age. Christians must adjust their eyes to see in the night.

What assumptions must Christians adopt during the Dark Age? Their basic perspective can be summed up in a few brief propositions. First, the expression of their views will be increasingly unwelcome, especially in the public square. Second, their ability to operate from the relative insulation of a subculture will be directly challenged. Third, pressure will increase, both officially and unofficially, to call good evil and evil good. Fourth, Christians will have no weight to throw around in either the social or political spheres.

Under this altered perspective, Christians must not view themselves as Moses, leading a nation into the promised land. They must not even view themselves as Elijah, calling a chosen people to repentance. They must view themselves as Mordecai or Daniel, as exiles in a brutal and foreign land—just as they should have all along.

Brenda said:

“Julie Anne, when you started posting comments in defense of Young Life (and their use of fun and games), I thought you could provide us with some insight as to how they are equipping young people to resist the perspectives of secularization. That was why I asked if you could elaborate on how they are doing that.”

And I’ve continued to tell you that I believe Young Life sees more of their mission to reach the unchurched teens - to introduce them to Christ. They don’t view themselves as a substitute for church. I think what you are discussing -resisting the perspectives of secularization - is likely out of their scope, so why put the burden on them? I see Young Life as priming of the pump. So, let’s now put Young Life aside and figure out what to do with that teen to help them along.

Keep in mind the article said 3 generations ago and fun and games and someone chimed in with Young Life. My point is - - - is it really Young Life who has caused the problems by getting kids excited for Jesus? Who is dropping the ball after Young Life?

Julie Anne wrote,

And I’ve continued to tell you that I believe Young Life sees more of their mission to reach the unchurched teens - to introduce them to Christ. They don’t view themselves as a substitute for church. I think what you are discussing -resisting the perspectives of secularization - is likely out of their scope, so why put the burden on them?

This question can be answered based on information provided by Young Life. They have put the burden on themselves. The preamble to their statement of faith gives a three-pronged mission:

our central purpose of proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ and introducing adolescents everywhere to Jesus Christ and helping them grow in their faith.

Also, the President of Young Life wrote in the winter 2013 issue of Relationships magazine:

Will you pray that these Young Life leaders (both volunteers and staff members) will be delivered from wicked and evil people and protected from the evil one as they live out the Great Commission… .?

Young Life says one of its purposes is to help adolescents grow in their faith (not just prime the pump and get them excited for Jesus). Young Life, per its president, claims to be doing Great Commission work which, according to Mt. 28:19-20, is to teach all nations, baptize them, and teach them to observe all God’s commands.

Any group or church (not just Young Life) claiming to help people grow in their faith or claiming to be living out the Great Commission has placed the burden on themselves.