"Nope. I'm not gonna pray for his good. I'm going to pray that (Barack Obama) dies and goes to hell."
[Jay C] We ought to have no part in spreading his madness.Like it or not, we are linked to guys like Anderson in the popular mind. Do we really expect new evangelicals, theological liberals, secular intellectuals, and the MSM to differentiate between him and us? After all, we use the same labels, speak in the same discourse, and share many surface similarities. To most non-fundamentalists Anderson and his like sound like us, talk like us, and look like us. If it quacks like a duck…
[Paul Matzko][Jay C] We ought to have no part in spreading his madness.Like it or not, we are linked to guys like Anderson in the popular mind. Do we really expect new evangelicals, theological liberals, secular intellectuals, and the MSM to differentiate between him and us? After all, we use the same labels, speak in the same discourse, and share many surface similarities. To most non-fundamentalists Anderson and his like sound like us, talk like us, and look like us. If it quacks like a duck…
Paul, would we be linked to him if we never acknowledged his existence or antics? If we don’t, we can always say, yes, we’ve heard of him and chose to not even talk about it.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Paul Matzko]So who do we fault, the sheep who go “baaaa” or the Wolf in sheep’s clothing going “baaaa”?[Jay C] We ought to have no part in spreading his madness.Like it or not, we are linked to guys like Anderson in the popular mind. Do we really expect new evangelicals, theological liberals, secular intellectuals, and the MSM to differentiate between him and us? After all, we use the same labels, speak in the same discourse, and share many surface similarities. To most non-fundamentalists Anderson and his like sound like us, talk like us, and look like us. If it quacks like a duck…
I have explained why I thought it noteworthy enough to mention here. Some may not agree, and that’s fine- don’t mention it on your blog… :-)
More seriously, we are to mark and avoid- and if no “marking” ever takes place, there are those who won’t be familiar with those we are indeed to separate from. I don’t think this should dominate the Filings, but occasional notations of such people are appropriate- especially in this case, where it is becoming evident that many more people than the relative few who frequent narrowly-focused internet forums are aware of this man. I stand by my decision- but also note that this is by no means the dominant focus of what gets highlighted on Filings.
More seriously, we are to mark and avoid- and if no “marking” ever takes place, there are those who won’t be familiar with those we are indeed to separate from. I don’t think this should dominate the Filings, but occasional notations of such people are appropriate- especially in this case, where it is becoming evident that many more people than the relative few who frequent narrowly-focused internet forums are aware of this man. I stand by my decision- but also note that this is by no means the dominant focus of what gets highlighted on Filings.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
Hi Greg-
I think that my question isn’t as much of whether or not you are doing a good job [I think you are :)] as much as it is what is the role of SI with publishing this kind of news?
To wit, Phil Johnson wrote this the other day:
I think that Pyro [while a different beast than a forum and news aggregator, which is what SI is intended to be] saves themselves a LOT of agony by sidestepping some of these “hot” [read: quarrelsome] issues [or maybe they’re not as hot there as they are over here in the IFB kingdom]. I think that perhaps we should evaluate that position, which may be a better discussion [on a different thread, of course] to have.
I think that my question isn’t as much of whether or not you are doing a good job [I think you are :)] as much as it is what is the role of SI with publishing this kind of news?
To wit, Phil Johnson wrote this the other day:
http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2009/08/was-spurgeon-kjvo.html Was Spurgeon KJVO?
by Phil Johnson
We don’t normally delve into the debate over Bible versions. The issue seems to attract people who are overzealous or slightly unhinged—and always in a bad mood. Besides, James White’s [Spurgeon] The King James Only Controversy covers all the important ground far better than we could ever say it in blog-post-sized bites…
I think that Pyro [while a different beast than a forum and news aggregator, which is what SI is intended to be] saves themselves a LOT of agony by sidestepping some of these “hot” [read: quarrelsome] issues [or maybe they’re not as hot there as they are over here in the IFB kingdom]. I think that perhaps we should evaluate that position, which may be a better discussion [on a different thread, of course] to have.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
*** Forum Director Comment ****
Theres’ been enough comments on this thread about whether it should or should not have been posted.
So no more of those. Thanks
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For my personal view … see my earlier comment in this thread
Theres’ been enough comments on this thread about whether it should or should not have been posted.
So no more of those. Thanks
*************************************
For my personal view … see my earlier comment in this thread
How sad. What a poor testimony. He is causing much harm to the cause of Christ. I didn’t know about him till this week when it was posted here. Today he’s a lead story on the Fox News website. I agree with Greg’s post #19.
From Day One Ministries - Ministering to the local church, from the very first verse
CNN covered this here - http://pubrecord.org/multimedia/4273/during-sermon-arizona-pastor-tells/
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
[Jay C] Paul, would we be linked to him if we never acknowledged his existence or antics? If we don’t, we can always say, yes, we’ve heard of him and chose to not even talk about it.Well, yes. That is precisely the problem. Alex’s analogy isn’t a perfect fit for the situation since the Scripture uses it to decry the effects of false teaching on deceived believers while I’m noting how it looks to those outside of the flock.
Paul, I sympathize with you and find myself going back and forth on it as well, esp. since the story seems to be gaining a full head of steam now, but I think that it’s worth noting that Christians don’t have any reputation to protect. We serve God and do His Will. We don’t stop to defend ourselves for being Christians or preaching the gospel. Anderson’s different in that he’s not acting like a Christian or preaching the gospel, but claims to be one.
The dichotomy between naming false teachers and exposing their error vs. having no part with them and not even wishing them godspeed is the sticky widget for me here, and I’m thinking a lot about II John today.
The dichotomy between naming false teachers and exposing their error vs. having no part with them and not even wishing them godspeed is the sticky widget for me here, and I’m thinking a lot about II John today.
[II John] I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father. And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Susan R]Actually, according to his website, a would-be link must submit a request in order to be linked….apparently, he doesn’t just willy nilly link to whomever he wishes.[BryanBice] On the kook’s website, his link page lists dozens of other “independent fundamental Baptist churches,” but limits inclusion to those that are KJV-only & have organized soul-winning programs. I’d hate to think that there are that many other crazies in IFB-dom who want to identify with this guy. Would that they obey their KJV Bibles instead and separate from him!
Anderson can link to anyone he wants to, whether they like it or not. What would be interesting is to see how many of those churches linked link back to him.
See http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/page10.html
how do we know he is being truthful about that- he isn’t demonstrating much in the way of ethical behavior, KWIM? Sometimes people link in order to be associated with them, and he may be ‘borrowing’ authenticity from others.
We don’t have any way of knowing, but I think it makes a case for reasonable doubt.
We don’t have any way of knowing, but I think it makes a case for reasonable doubt.
[Paul Matzko]Well, if sheep can be fooled then how much more those who aren’t even sheep?[Jay C] Paul, would we be linked to him if we never acknowledged his existence or antics? If we don’t, we can always say, yes, we’ve heard of him and chose to not even talk about it.Well, yes. That is precisely the problem. Alex’s analogy isn’t a perfect fit for the situation since the Scripture uses it to decry the effects of false teaching on deceived believers while I’m noting how it looks to those outside of the flock.
[Susan R]From what I can see, many of them would probably praise him for “taking a stand.” With the controversy he’s stirring up between his resisting lawful arrest, making a fool of himself on the Alan Colmes show, and now this, I’d say he’s on a sure road to self-destruction. I just hope he doesn’t take too many people down with him. He’s sort of the new century version of Hyles, Roloff, Gray, and other wackos who have co-opted the fundamentalist moniker.[BryanBice] On the kook’s website, his link page lists dozens of other “independent fundamental Baptist churches,” but limits inclusion to those that are KJV-only & have organized soul-winning programs. I’d hate to think that there are that many other crazies in IFB-dom who want to identify with this guy. Would that they obey their KJV Bibles instead and separate from him!
Anderson can link to anyone he wants to, whether they like it or not. What would be interesting is to see how many of those churches linked link back to him.
Discussion