In Defense of What?
The Northland threads spawned interesting discussions on secondary separation and music. This thread will spawn nothing but attacks upon Lou. Regardless of what you think about him, isn’t this a bit wrong? Motivations seem vindictive …
We didn’t name him, and we didn’t give him the time of day. Now his name is out, and we can finally have catharsis.
This picture adequately captures the spirit of this particular thread, and where it’s going …
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
This picture adequately captures the spirit of this particular thread, and where it’s going …
“For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.”
DavidO - Please explain, in context, how Mt 7:2 applies to me here.
Everybody: There has been nothing of substance said here. Personal attacks abound, substance is fleeting. Unless somebody is prepared to (1) agree with the blog writer and denounce Lou publicly as a false teacher in the same vein as Fred Phelps, (2) discuss the errs of blogging, or (3) advocate secondary separation from Lou based on a cogent argument from Scripture, then I must say this thread is simply continuing to go …
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
I didn’t say it applies to you. It may explain, however, why people here feel entirely comfortable speaking, um, frankly about Lou.
Were I you, before I issued another call to shut this thread down, I’d issue several to shut a certain blog down.
Tyler-
I did #1 AND #3. Would appreciate your interactions with those posts.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
I mostly agree with Tyler, evangelicals hostile against fundamentalists like to paint broad strokes on fundamentalism.
Not sure if he would be labeled so much of an evangelical (maybe conservative evangelical). Bixby is still in the orbit of fundamentalism, maybe not mainstream. Where I do agree with Tyler is the Fred Phelps reference. Within Christianity, comparing someone’s hatred such as Lou to Fred Phelps’ hatred is almost like those who like to compare their adversary with Hitler.
Yet I believe that much of the article is on target (that he is not defending the gospel) and incidentally he often makes SI his punching bag, always referring to this site as “pseudo-fundamentalism.” He will not acknowledge the many other streams of fundamentalism unless they are as rigid and conservative as his. The tone of his blog comes across as gossip tabloid.
I may be wrong, but in one way Lou probably doesn’t mind what was written about him by Bixby. It gives him much more of a platform than he’s had and more traffic to his blog.
Lou removes what he believes are inappropriate comments from his blog just like SI does and like Jay did when he was a moderator.
In the end what you have are people who cannot and will not sustain an argument with Lou or wise enough to understand that some disagreements just have to stand if it produces rottenness in your soul to the point that you detest speaking this brother’s name.
Lou is Lutheresque and a bunch of baby Popes just want him ostracized because they rarely can tolerate more than the echo of their ideas. His book obliterates the Lordship error.
[Alex Guggenheim] In the end what you have are people who cannot and will not sustain an argument with Lou or wise enough to understand that some disagreements just have to stand if it produces rottenness in your soul to the point that you detest speaking this brother’s name. Lou is Lutheresque and a bunch of baby Popes just want him ostracized because they rarely can tolerate more than the echo of their ideas. His book obliterates the Lordship error.
LOL. Lutheresque is he? Luther wrote the 95 Thesis. Lou wrote this: http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2013/01/whats-cost-of-change-27-million-dollars.html
Ah yes, well one time Usain Bolt ran the 100 meters in 13 seconds and I did it in 11.5. That was my best day and it wasn’t his but the comparison, as prejudiced and childish as it may be, still makes me the winner. Hmmm…maybe we can compare both of our best days, eh?
But to this article by Lou, you post the link as if in and of itself, that is by posting and link and implying something is in error, that is sufficient for your to have made an argument by way of illustration. Sorry, but you actually have to make a rebuttal by pointing out the problem.
But let us pretend you made an argument and are right, that it is less that Lou’s best, should we pull up some of Luther’s less best statements, some might even say discrediting which is a far cry from the mere question Lou was asking in the article and did not answer to your satisfaction?
But then, you might have served my Lutheresque description more than you thought.
I honestly didn’t remember most of your post after your remark on needing catharsis … !
I am not defending Lou. I don’t know him and don’t haunt his blog, but I have found some of his work profitable. That being said, here are my observations …
The point that Bixby makes is dead on. Lou uses his blog for faultfinding, gossip, and malicious slander of brothers in the Lord. A cursory review of his blog demonstrates that repeatedly (and that’s before we read the things he wrote on SI before he ‘quit’ or on other Forums that he has been banned from). Lou isn’t actually defending anything Gospel related. His defense is to be on the offense against those he deems to be not Fundamentalist enough (like this site). So is he defending the Gospel or is he defending Fundamentalism? Are believers called to die for Fundamentalism? Did Jesus atone for our sins so that we could be Fundamentalists?
Some people see secondary separation as very important. Such folks probably wouldn’t characterize their work as anything but warning the brethren about compromise. You can differ from Lou on his conclusions, but you’re impugning his intent at the same time … Most honest people I know who are KJVO, for example (and I came out of the KJVO camp) are honestly convicted in their beliefs. I disagree with them severely, but I don’t impugn their intent.
Lou uses his soapbox to attack brothers in Christ, even if they are different from where you or I might fall. That’s very serious behavior…it’s worthy of separating from him and marking him as someone to avoid. It might indicate even more problems as well. It’s not behavior that should characterize Christians, and he’s exhibited it for years. I know, because he has made himself conspicuous for years
Again, he appears to place a higher priority on secondary separation than you. I see little warrant for questioning his salvation, as you did here:
But the constant attacks on anyone that’s not ‘one of us’ makes me wonder if he is ‘one of us’.
Lou’s focus appears to be on NIU (at the moment) and Lordship Salvation. They’re important to him and he writes about them. Lordship Salvation concerns me also. I’ve dealt with it in ministry. NIU’s drift away from firm separation likewise concerns me.
Jesus said that we would know each other by our fruits. Lou’s fruits, as far as I see, are toxic and dangerous.
Not dangerous - you just strongly disagree with them! Go to his blog and engage him.
Sorry for missing your points before, Jay. Bottom line - I think fundamentalists are very divided over secondary separation and how it should work.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
[Alex Guggenheim] Lou removes what he believes are inappropriate comments from his blog just like SI does and like Jay did when he was a moderator. In the end what you have are people who cannot and will not sustain an argument with Lou or wise enough to understand that some disagreements…
Yes, I was a site moderator for approx. 2 years, and resigned from that role in May or September (can’t remember when). As for unpublished comments - I unpublished approx. ten to twenty posts in that time, and every single person who had a post unpublished received a PM from me, with CCs to Jim and Aaron, with a note explaining why and that they had the right of appeal. All of the unpublished posts were also reviewed by the entire moderating team, and I was overturned a few times. That’s the way the system works, and it’s the way it should work.
That’s how I know for sure what happened with this site and with Lou (and some of the details at other places). Did Lou quit? Yes he did, and after he quit he began to lie repeatedly about the site and it’s leaders. We confronted him on it, multiple times over years, and he did not repent or confess that he had lied. That’s why he was banned, and he should have been banned long before he quit.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Jay]I believe, Jay, you have broken a trust, here. I suspect that revealing this would have been at the discretion of the current Admin or Mod team, I could be wrong but being in such a position myself, ecclesiastically and professionally, I am rather confident what you just uttered was a breach of trust though it served as a personal weapon for you. I believe it is quite revealing about your character.[Alex Guggenheim] Lou removes what he believes are inappropriate comments from his blog just like SI does and like Jay did when he was a moderator. In the end what you have are people who cannot and will not sustain an argument with Lou or wise enough to understand that some disagreements…Yes, I was a site moderator for approx. 2 years, and resigned from that role in May or September (can’t remember when). As for unpublished comments - I unpublished approx. ten posts, and every singler person who had a post unpublished received a PM from me, with CCs to Jim and Aaron, with a note explaining why. All posts were also reviewed by the entire team, and I was overturned a few times. That’s the way the system works, and it’s the way it should work.
That’s how I know for sure what happened with this site and with Lou (and some of the details at other places). Did Lou quit? Yes he did, and after he quit he began to lie repeatedly about the site and it’s leaders. We confronted him on it, multiple times over years, and he did not repent or confess that he had lied. That’s why he was banned, and he should have been banned long before he quit.
Now, understand that is your narrative. Lou is not here to defend himself. That is a second breach of trust. I have heard another narrative about events btw, which do not match yours but since it is private information of which I am a trusted confidant, I will not utter those words since to release them is not my perogative.
Brothers - I beg you all to stop the madness! Let’s be gentlemen …
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
Jay wrote,I’ve seen Lou in action for years now as a member of this site (before he quit) and his various blogs. Why anyone takes him seriously is beyond me. His behavior on SharperIron, other forums, and his blog seems to put him clearly in the Titus 3:10-11 category.
If Lou truly is in that category, then it seems prudent to follow the admonition of the Apostle Paul.
Titus 3:10
“As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him.” (emphasis mine)
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