Video from T4G Now Available

[Don Johnson]

[Jay C.]

[Don Johnson]
Ron, the whole fuss over new evangelicalism wasn’t over the preaching. No one accused BG as a poor preacher - he was electrifying. His preaching wasn’t the point, his associations, philosophy, alliances, etc. were the issue.

Don, if Piper dis-invited Warren tomorrow, would you still feel this way?

Well, Jay, the Warren thing is only part of a pattern. There would have to be a wholesale reversal and repudiation of a whole pattern of ministry for the last 40 years or so… In other words, it’s not that I thought any differently about Piper pre-Warren than I did post-Warren. The Warren invitation is par for the course, entirely in keeping with Piper’s ministry philosophy. It is no surprise.

Ok, then…if Piper is the problem (which I basically agree with you that he is, esp. for this coalition), then what happens if I alter time and space in order to remove Piper from the conference? The speakers would then be:

# Thabiti Anyabwile
# Mark Dever
# Ligon Duncan
# John MacArthur
# Albert Mohler
# R.C. Sproul
# Matt Chandler - filled in for CJ Mahaney

So is the conference then acceptable?

I recently received and email from Todd Friel (www.wretchedradio.com) where he made this statement about Piper’s decision to have Warren at the Desiring God Conference. I watched several of the videos of the T4G conference and I thought there was a blandness compared to what I have watched in the past. Could it be that Piper’s choice created an cloud over the conference?

[Todd Friel] If You Have Been Hurt
How many people have been deeply wounded because of “The Purpose Driven Church”? If I were a betting man, I would guess millions have been driven from their beloved church because of the writings of Rick Warren.
That is the second reason I absolutely hate the decision made by a man I love to invite Rick Warren to speak at the Desiring God Conference in the fall of this year.
As Purpose has seduced over 300,000 pastors (that is not a guess) to leave the Jesus Model and follow the Rick Model, faithful sheep have been forced out of their church by their shepherd to make room for the goats. Devastating.
If you are one of those people, I am very, very sorry that one of the men who probably served as an anchor during your storm has seen fit to use his national conference to figure out how Rick Warren ticks. Frankly, we know how Rick Warren ticks. He may have file cabinet orthodoxy, but his public works are nothing short of lethal.
Perhaps you have suffered the effects of purpose poison and now your almost-healed scars have been ripped open. Many of us feel bad for you. Please heal fast knowing that you were not wrong, you were wronged.
You were not the bad guy when you left your church whimpering and scalded. You were right. Rick Warren’s pragmatic methodology is not Biblical. His use of Scripture is worse than a self-proclaimed “bishop” on prosperity TV. Rick Warren’s Gospel is no Gospel at all.
That is the number one reason why I continue to be saddened by this decision; the Gospel will suffer and more people will be hurt.
Honestly, I thought Rick Warren’s Purpose kingdom was one to two years away from joining Jabez on the ash heap of church trends. Unfortunately, Purpose has been given new life by a highly esteemed pastor.
Tragic.
-Todd

[Jay C.] Ok, then…if Piper is the problem (which I basically agree with you that he is, esp. for this coalition), then what happens if I alter time and space in order to remove Piper from the conference? The speakers would then be:

# Thabiti Anyabwile
# Mark Dever
# Ligon Duncan
# John MacArthur
# Albert Mohler
# R.C. Sproul
# Matt Chandler - filled in for CJ Mahaney

So is the conference then acceptable?

Well, Jay, you do recall the Manhattan Declaration, don’t you? So you would have to remove Mohler and Duncan at least…

And the others have some questionable associations as far as I am concerned also.

But my point isn’t that people should necessarily avoid the conference. I was responding to your comment that the Toronto Blessing incident was a non-issue as far as Piper is concerned. I am pointing out that it isn’t just an isolated incident, that it fits a pattern, and is a reason why many people like me have been cautious to critical of Piper for a long time. I just don’t think you should dismiss it since it happened before you were born and is ancient history by now. If you agree that such a connection (the Toronto Blessing) would be a problem if it were to occur today, and if you agree that the Warren thing is a problem in a similar category, then these choices by Piper (and others like them) represent a pattern that is a problem.

As such, I don’t think it is wise to be supporting Piper or working with him.

Although some of the other men on the list may not have erred as egregiously as Piper (other than the MD signing), they have consistently exhibited a philosophy of ministry that I don’t want to emulate or encourage others to emulate. That is, with respect to associations, fellowships, cooperative endeavours. Obviously each of them do have creditable ministries in other ways. But for me, there are other ministries (maybe less well known) where the philosophy is more acceptable to me and much more worthy of emulation. (I don’t want to get into a list of names, but Mark Minnick would be one whom I have tried to pattern my ministry after in many respects.)

Maybe it’s not reformed doctrine that’s drawing people to conferences like this.

Maybe the people going just want to hear Christ exalted and the Bible preached.

That was the case with my friends who attended. They disagree with the MD, they dislike Rick Warren, but they hunger for Christ exalting, Bible-based preaching.

[Ron Bean] Maybe it’s not reformed doctrine that’s drawing people to conferences like this.

Maybe the people going just want to hear Christ exalted and the Bible preached.

That was the case with my friends who attended. They disagree with the MD, they dislike Rick Warren, but they hunger for Christ exalting, Bible-based preaching.

Maybe you are right, Ron.

But it seems to me that there are plenty of good places to find good Biblical preaching. (Yes, there is a lot of chaff as well.)

I have been thinking about your comment all afternoon. Why do men, especially those from a fundamentalist background, have a desire to go to the T4G conference? Maybe it is just simply a desire for sound preaching (a matter of opinion, to be sure). And maybe it isn’t because of the reformed doctrine. And surely it isn’t because of the ‘star power’ of these names and the cachet that one might garner for being on the cutting edge, going a little beyond what other fundamentalists might dare to do… surely not, right?

It does seem that those who are enthusiastic enough to attend don’t disagree all that much with the egregious error of the Manhattan Declaration or with the astonishing cooperative partners of Mr. Piper.