"[T]aking any stand on homosexuality short of complete... affirmation will soon place one in the same moral category as a Klansman"

Carl Trueman made a number of very good points, but one bears repeating - there is a great danger when a celebrity Christian is paraded around as an authority or voice on Biblical issues. Fame has nothing to do with spiritual discernment or maturity. There seems to be a tendency to sensationalize anybody “famous” who is “religious.” This is a great shame.

The Tim Tebow stupidity has always disgusted me. Who cares? Why do we care? Are Christians really so hard up for inspiration they sensationalize a 2nd-string quarterback who prays? I don’t like hearing about the guy, and it saddens me that he is somehow the “poster boy” for Christianity. I honestly don’t even like it when folks at church talk about him. Who cares?

On the Klansman thing. We’re already there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/patrick-pexton-is-the-post-pro-gay/2013/02/22/fab8235c-7c53-11e2-a044-676856536b40_allComments.html?ctab=all_&

Are Christians really so hard up for inspiration they sensationalize a 2nd-string quarterback who prays?

Yes - I think they are. It seems that a majority of those who embrace Christianity also embrace the Culture of Celebrity.

Another example of how modern day Christians are not much different than the unregenerate.

Tyler, perhaps you don’t really know Tebow’s story if all you see him is as a second-string quarterback.

I have read some stuff on him. If you’re referring to his alleged football prowess, I don’t care. I must admit, I’ve never liked football. If you’re referring to his Christian testimony, I also don’t care. He has evidenced little Christian maturity in his decision to capitulate to the pro-gay positions of secular society. Carl Trueman’s remarks about how we should “take it easy” on Tebow are well-meaning but misplaced - Tebow placed himself in this position. He should be rebuked by his Pastor for his compromising and disappointing decision.

I don’t say this with malice - I am just being matter of fact.

[Greg Long]

Tyler, perhaps you don’t really know Tebow’s story if all you see him is as a second-string quarterback.

Well, it seems obvious that the NFL brains don’t think him more than a second-string quarterback (if that). And while they might be wrong, they definitely know more about evaluating talent than any of us or any other armchair Monday-morning quarterbacks. I suspect they are right about Tebow. ;)

Greg, I wasn’t suggesting he should be anything other than a second-string quarterback. What I said was, if that’s all you view him as, you’re not familiar with his story. Even if he is just a second-string NFL quarterback, nany people have made the case that he was the greatest college football player in history. In addition, he led the Broncos to the playoffs last year and an overtime playoff victory.

But more importantly he has consistently been outspoken about his faith in Christ. Not just his “religious beliefs” or “faith in God” but clearly and consistently given glory to Jesus Christ. He has preached Gospel messages in churches and in the locker room. Microphones on the sidelines during NFL games catch him singing worship songs and praying out loud.

Now, I’m not thrilled about his withdrawal from speaking at the church in Dallas, but the fact is we don’t know all the details. But he and the church he was going to speak at have been absolutely slandered in the media, and Carl Trueman’s point is—this is how things are going to be.

Even if you don’t follow football, or think it is an idol in our culture, or think Tebow has been overrated, if you’re a Christian I think you should at least respect his outspoken testimony of faith in Christ. He has used the talents and the platform God has given him to do what many Christians never seem to do in whatever arena they are in—truly give glory to Jesus Christ.

I tend to agree Greg Long. I am surprised to see people jump on him for this so quickly without knowing hardly anything about the situation. People sure turn on their heroes quickly. I don’t think he should be held up as a hero in the first place, but for those that value how he has represented Christ up to this point, the least they could do is consider giving him a mulligan here I think.

Greg(s):

I understand what you’re saying. Truly I do. I see where you’re coming from. However, Tebow has dishonored God by caving in on homosexuality.

“But he has immense pressures!”

I don’t care. A man who is not a mature Christian should not be held up as a role model. He should also not be preaching at all. Does he meet Biblical qualifications (1 Tim 3:1-7)? Not a chance; and I don’t say this with glee, but, well … he obviously doesn’t! I’d limit him to giving a quick testimony to the congregation about living out your faith - nothing more.

Back to the point of the article - society is increasingly hostile to Biblical Christianity. I fear for the future.

Tyler, I’m not willing to say 100% for certain that he “caved in on homosexuality.” There may be more to it than that. Also, the pastor of the church he was going to has made some statements that—while they have certainly been twisted by unbelievers—have in my opinion been infelicitous in that they could be easily misunderstood. Why does a pastor have to say 70% of gay men have AIDS or whatever he said? In my opinion it distracts and polarizes. Just state the truth of Scripture.

Now, just to inject a little levity to the discussion:

Why does Tim Tebow throw all his passes into the ground?

To Carl Trueman’s complaint that we should be seeing “some transformation for the good in society’s moral and legal standards,” here is what appears to be a different take from John Piper (tweeted late yesterday): “Society is not the report card of the church. The ‘mystery of lawlessness’ is not owing to the church’s failure. 2 Thess. 2:7.”

I think Trueman’s context if “If the cultural transformationists were succeeding (as they claim to be) it would be helpful to see results.” In other words, I think it is a bit of subtle mockery of cultural transformationism.

[Greg Long] But more importantly he has consistently been outspoken about his faith in Christ.

So do plenty of athletes. In fact, not a few athletes are ordained ministers who have also “preached Gospel messages in churches and in the locker room”, pray while on the field, etc. It is just that evangelical America strangely chose to embrace Tebow while ignoring the others.

[Greg Long] “Many people have made the case that he was the greatest college football player in history”

Yeah … those people were wrong. Tebow only won titles in 1 season as a starter, and played on an extremely talented team. That case is often made by giving Tebow credit for the conference and national title that the Gators won when he was a backup who hardly played.

[Greg Long] “In addition, he led the Broncos to the playoffs last year and an overtime playoff victory.”

[Greg Long] I think you should at least respect his outspoken testimony of faith in Christ. He has used the talents and the platform God has given him to do what many Christians never seem to do in whatever arena they are in—truly give glory to Jesus Christ

Tebow has never said anything that anyone but an ardent secularist, atheist or ant-Christian would find offensive or controversial. He also doesn’t go theologically deeper than your typical VeggieTales episode. Now maybe he has when he is preaching in prisons or on the mission field, but not in his many public appearances, including to churches. He has been given the opportunity to, such as when he has been asked specific questions by the media, and he has always declined. Realize that the criticisms of him have been primarily due to his association with his father’s ministry and membership in a Southern Baptist church in his hometown - meaning that his critics assume that he agrees with their doctrines by association - and then after that because of his public displays of religiosity. But had Tebow been going around speaking about the doctrinal statement points of his home church or of his father’s missionary organization, he wouldn’t be nearly as popular. For example, I still remember when a well known columnist from a major newspaper in Florida shredded Tebow because a fundraising mailer from his father’s ministry made it clear that Roman Catholics are in need of conversion. I also remember when the national media turned on and trashed former FSU QB Charlie Ward - the Tim Tebow of his generation … how quickly we forget! - immediately after his comments concerning the Jews’ rejection of Jesus Christ, their role in his crucifixion and their maltreatment of Messianic Jews were made public. So long as Tebow only refers to Jesus Christ as his personal savior, he is fine with the mainstream. But let Tebow refer to Jesus Christ as the unique savior of the world and the only way to heaven, and it would actually be worse for him than publicly opposing homosexual “marriage” because then even the religious and socially Jews, Mormons, Muslims, Catholics, cultural Christians etc. who consider him a role model and inspiration but want nothing to do with legitimate Christianity would rip him to shreds.

That being said, criticizing Tebow too harshly over this incident is wrong. For all we know, Tebow might have prayed and God told him not to go! Also, I have read where Tebow is simply going to reschedule. Further, we should be in the business of spreading the gospel, not merely taking stands against the popular culture. (I think a lot of us have forgotten how immoral the Roman Empire was during the time of Christ and the early church … abortion and homosexuality was commonplace then too, and still more abominations also. Yet Jesus Christ and the early church specifically avoided anything resembling the culture wars, and as a matter of fact their refusal to “engage the culture” was one of the reasons why they were persecuted.) Wanting Tebow to be our hero by taking a stand against the gay rights activists is part of the problem. Opposing the gay agenda is not the gospel, plus we are also equally capable of taking that same stand by simply marching up to a nightclub or other establishment where members of that community are known to congregate (or going to one of their “pride parades”) and handing out salvation tracts. So denouncing Tebow for not doing what so many of us are unwilling to do when we have much less at stake is unfair.

But just as Tebow is being unfairly criticized for this incident, he has been overly praised, particularly by those who presume his beliefs without having actually heard him speak them. But before we even criticize him for that, please remember that he is a product of his times. Christians willing to articulate authentic Christianity are few and far between, and I am not even talking about outside the confines of the church. You can go to a Christian bookstore, for example, or listen to Christian radio and the overwhelming majority of the content will lack an actual message about the need for and way to salvation. Most of it uses Christianity in replacement for - or in addition to - psychology and counseling, because the rest of the Christian message is assumed, or it is hoped that the blanks will be filled by someone else i.e. by hearing someone preach or by reading their Bibles. So I am afraid that asking Tebow to be George Whitefield or John Edwards in this day and age is asking a bit much. And that is something to be kept in mind by Christians who both praise and condemn Tebow. Instead of praise or condemnation, he really needs our prayers, and the same goes for all the saints.

Job, you’re arguing against positions I’m not taking. I don’t think he is a great NFL football player. I was simply trying to explain why Tim Tebow is more than just a “second-string quarterback.”

As far as his college career, as you noted I didn’t argue that he IS the all-time greatest college football player. I said some people have made that case. But I think it’s a bit more than “he played on good teams.” From Wikipedia (yeah, I was too lazy to hunt down another source, so if this is wrong please correct me):

While he spent his freshman year as a backup, eventual career highlights at Florida include winning the Heisman Trophy in 2007, leading the team to a BCS championship in 2008, and a 13–1 2009 season. The Gators coaches selected him as a team captain in 2008 and 2009, and he is the only three-time recipient of the Gators’ most valuable player award, having been chosen by his teammates in 2007, 2008 and 2009…

At the end of his college career, Tebow held 5 NCAA, 14 Southeastern Conference, and 28 University of Florida statistical records.[75] He was the SEC’s all-time leader in career passing efficiency (170.8), completion percentage (67.1%), passing touchdown to interception ratio (5.5 to 1), rushing yards by a quarterback (2947), rushing touchdowns (any position) (57), and total touchdowns responsible for (145).[7] [76] Among many mentions in the NCAA Division-I record book, Tebow is ranked second in career passing efficiency, third in career yards per attempt (9.33), 8th in career rushing touchdowns, and also owns the record for most consecutive games in which he both threw at least one touchdown pass and scored at least one rushing touchdown (14).[77]

As far as his Christian testimony, I’m not suggesting he is George Whitefield or John Edwards. That’s not what he believes God has called him to do. All I said was he has been clearly and consistently outspoken about his faith in Christ, and that’s something I respect. For goodness sake, the NCAA created a new rule just to ban wearing messages on eye black which many people thought was in response to Tebow putting Bible verse references on his eye black:

During his college football career, he frequently wore references to biblical verses on his eye black. In the 2009 BCS Championship Game, he wore John 3:16 on his eye black; the verse was the highest-ranked Google search term over the next 24 hours, generating over 90 million searches.[82] [83] [84] [85] [86] Additionally, later, when Tebow switched to another verse, there were 3.43 million searches of “Tim Tebow” and “Proverbs 3:5-6” together.[87] Tebow stated of the searches “It just goes to show you the influence and the platform that you have as a student-athlete and as a quarterback at Florida.”

And you lost me when you said:

So long as Tebow only refers to Jesus Christ as his personal savior, he is fine with the mainstream.

Are you seriously suggesting the mainstream media (sports or non-sports) is “fine” with Tim Tebow? I have seen primarily dismissal and ridicule for his beliefs.

I should note that Al Mohler is disappointed in Tebow’s decision:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/february-web-only/tebows-big-f…