Suspending worship in order to serve the community?
“the 20,000-member Saddleback Church in Orange County is canceling all of its worship services during the second weekend in December in order to help facilitate a huge neighborhood volunteer opportunity.”
- 13 views
[Jeffrey Dean] They have no fear of man. They do not care what you or any man thinks - good or bad. They just continue to listen to the Lord and do their best to glorify Jesus. The Lord in turn just blesses and blesses. 31 years of existance, 25,000 members (in Ca), a worldwide ministry of significance, Jesus name glorified… no wonder they are a lightning rod for nansayers. So was Jesus.
Apparently they care what one another thinks or they could not collaborate with each other. But let’s examine your prescription for measuring the rightness or validity of a church:
31 years of existance, 25,000 members (in Ca), a worldwide ministry of significance Jesus name glorified
I believe Mormons can far exceed this number of followers and years of existence and they, too, would claim Jesus’ name is glorified.
Luke 16:8b - For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light
[Paul J] They are set-up meeting weekly with two weeks focusing on Spiritual Formation and one week focusing on my neighbor and one week my city.Spiritual Formation? Possibly you are quite aware of its provocative nature when being mentioned in CE and Fundie circles so this may be a deliberate mention for that reason. I don’t know but either way I will oblige addressing it. For those who are not familiar with the heresy called Spiritual Formation, here are some good articles:
I found this through this group through the book which looks interesting. http://missio.us/home
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue91.htm The Dangers of Spiritual Formation and Spiritual Disciplines
http://www.erwm.com/TheNewSpiritualFormation.htm Contemplative Spiritual Formation/ Emerging Church (A long list of articles at this link)
Steve, on Christian culture I’m speaking of the default cultural position it has maintained in the US through time. We were viewed as an inclusive culture but Christian in the majority. I’m speaking of the plurality culture we are becoming now. I this type environment we find our selves in today in some cities and areas non-Christian of whatever stripe is the norm and the church has lost it’s place. So engaging outside the building can do more to engage then inside. For a church to say we are not the church inside these walls but we are the church as people can be said well in that context.
I am not lifting the Saddleback event as the model I’m just saying I’m fine with it. I thing North Coast has been doing this for several years and like Warren he has taken hits. I’m in church almost every weekend but don’t hold to the three to thrive. That said I do see this type event as most compatible with an atractional format that being said I have no problem with the Church being outside it’s walls on a Sunday.
Alex, I haven’t really paid much attention to those discussions especially anything Bob DeWaay has to say.
I am not lifting the Saddleback event as the model I’m just saying I’m fine with it. I thing North Coast has been doing this for several years and like Warren he has taken hits. I’m in church almost every weekend but don’t hold to the three to thrive. That said I do see this type event as most compatible with an atractional format that being said I have no problem with the Church being outside it’s walls on a Sunday.
Alex, I haven’t really paid much attention to those discussions especially anything Bob DeWaay has to say.
[Paul J]A good student deals with both sides of an argument. It’s time for you to pay attention to them. Bob DeWaay is but one of many. But let me guess, you have reasons why ALL OF THEM are to be objected to before even listening.
Alex, I haven’t really paid much attention to those discussions
I appreciate many of your posts. I was speaking in more of a Next Steps perspective but have read both Willard and Boa and though I will differ have enjoyed reading both Ken Boa’s “Conformed to His Image” and Willard’s “Hearing God” and “Divine Conspiracy”. Of Boa’s 12 points I thought he had some interesting things to consider. I’m open to look at the church and how it looked over the ages. Something that sometimes shows up on this site seems to be the negative side of “Foundationalism” now that would be a interesting discussion. sometime.
I do read what bloggers have to say but regularly they take it to the absurd, which is the same reason I don’t listen to talk radio. On DeWaay his caustic discernment posts are off-putting and he probably has bigger things to be worrying about now.
I do read what bloggers have to say but regularly they take it to the absurd, which is the same reason I don’t listen to talk radio. On DeWaay his caustic discernment posts are off-putting and he probably has bigger things to be worrying about now.
More than “bloggers” object so maybe a bit more reading is in order. Obviously you accept forms of Christian mysticism, I don’t. Frankly, they are doctrines of demons as I have concluded, along with a large group of other believers in the body of Christ. Obviously just because many hold to this view does not make it right but it does speak foolishness to those who would simply close their ears to it and not evaluate such objections.
However, in the end these kinds of heresies never survive sound exegesis and it does take time for their perniciousness to be identified and addressed as they rise up so you will hear, more and more, objections by vetted Ministers. Hopefully with their credentials you will give them a hearing.
But such heresies do injure the vulnerable in many ways and my interest is in the vulnerable, not so much those who wish to ignore, close their eyes and plug their ears to any objections as they preach these errors, they have made up their minds but still, may God’s mercy return them (if they are His) to biblical and spiritual fidelity. They are treats for those inclined toward rationalism and philosophy as a way of theological determinations. They can have their arsenic and chocolate, no thanks for me.
As to caustic comments, I really do not care. If someone has a point to make I listen to the point. I do not like everyone’s style but it is not their style or the disposition which I use as objections, rather it is their substance. It does not mean to condone or condemn certain dispositions, rather that they are not in view with respect to arguments.
But now and I am off topic and not serving the thread so I have stated my view and return to the topic.
However, in the end these kinds of heresies never survive sound exegesis and it does take time for their perniciousness to be identified and addressed as they rise up so you will hear, more and more, objections by vetted Ministers. Hopefully with their credentials you will give them a hearing.
But such heresies do injure the vulnerable in many ways and my interest is in the vulnerable, not so much those who wish to ignore, close their eyes and plug their ears to any objections as they preach these errors, they have made up their minds but still, may God’s mercy return them (if they are His) to biblical and spiritual fidelity. They are treats for those inclined toward rationalism and philosophy as a way of theological determinations. They can have their arsenic and chocolate, no thanks for me.
As to caustic comments, I really do not care. If someone has a point to make I listen to the point. I do not like everyone’s style but it is not their style or the disposition which I use as objections, rather it is their substance. It does not mean to condone or condemn certain dispositions, rather that they are not in view with respect to arguments.
But now and I am off topic and not serving the thread so I have stated my view and return to the topic.
Discussion