Why I left the Conservative Music Movement

John E., I enjoy reading your comments. Let me say, there is nothing like clicking on Sharper Iron and reading a terrific T.Swift review! Seriously, good thoughts.

I really don’t listen to CCM (the corporate pop, Top 40 kind as John E. refers to) at all. To me it is mostly dumbed-down, cheesy, feel good fluff. Just throw in one or two words about Jesus and poof, you’ve got a Top 40 “Christian” hit that makes tons of money and wins a neat Dove award. I would much, much rather listen to U2.

In those kinds of CCM churches I don’t want to have the volume of the praise band the same as a Matchbox 20 concert and sing songs that repeat the same four words 50 times in a row. I want to actively participate throughout the entire singing part of the service and not watch performers perform while the congregation tries to sing songs that are arranged so they are impossible to sing.

At the same time I don’t want to sing songs only from the 1800’s either. Older does not necessarily mean better.

Thanks, mmartin! Maybe Sharper Iron will hire me to review pop music for the site :).

Greg L., I’m currently listening to ‘Give Us Rest,’ and so far am impressed. Enough so that I may order the album. Couple of quick notes – 1. It’s a concept album, which is an artistic and commercial challenge that most artists don’t attempt. I saw that it hit #1 on the CCM sales charts upon its release which speaks to the loyalty of the Christian market (which is sometimes a bad thing – not calling artists to task for missteps, for example). Concept albums generally do not do as well on the market as single driven albums. And, because of mp3 files, the market is becoming more and more single driven, which is a de-evolution back to the 50s. So, I applaud the band for producing a concept album; and, for producing one that doesn’t veer into self-indulgence (think ‘Relayer’ by Yes, ‘The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway’ by Genesis, or pretty much any prog rock album not made by Pink Floyd). 2. This isn’t an artistic knock on the album, but I don’t see how most of the songs could be used in a corporate music service. Contrary to what my youth pastors, various camp speakers, and evangelists focused on music would often say, singing rock/pop music is a specific skill that is difficult and not easily learned. A friend of mine with a graduate degree in classical voice signed a deal with a small label. With all of her training, she had to be retrained how to sing. She told me that learning how to sing rock/pop was much more challenging artistically than learning how to sing classical. Make of that what you will.

I confess that my initial opinion when hearing the David Crowder Band mentioned has been that they were the Nickleback of Christian rock. Maybe if I listened to other albums, my opinion would revert back to that. But, for now, I am impressed with ‘Give Us Rest,’ and by extension, the band.

This hymn is often treated as a punching bag by some posters here, and I’m trying to figure out what the problem is with it. John E listed it as an example of a “Jesus is my boyfriend” song…o…k…I rechecked the lyrics and to me it is about regular friendship and relationship with God (including Jesus). I don’t see the romance.

Others probably oppose it because the song suggests you can actually communicate with God and He actually, gasp, responds back to you. I think some think of God as the Great CEO who sent down the corporate manual (that is to be followed to the letter) by means of an email with one of those “please do not respond to this email address since it is not monitored” warnings!!

Given some of how this conversation has gone, I’d like to chime in again. John E. nails a lot of my objections to “corporate” CCM—it’s simply least common denominator stuff, 19 of 20 bands aspiring not to Liverpudian glory, but to finally attain the musical purgatory of the Pre-Fab Four. (word picture; I actually like some of the stuff by the Monkees)

But to the point of commercialism, it strikes me that if one is singing because it is the “Flavor of the Month”, one’s probably not singing from the heart. Now interestingly, MIss Swift’s latest song is, judging by the lyrics, fairly autobiographical, and thus I am loath to suggest her heart is not in there. Except….she’s gone pop to follow the Benjamins, it seems. So a mixture.

(and I had to look up the lyrics, since I am not as “tough” as John and couldn’t make it through more than 30 seconds of the video)

And so I’d like to introduce—or reintroduce I hope—a simple concept from Ephesians 5:19 that probably speaks a lot to all forms of vocal church music. We are to “speak”, “to one another”, in “Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.” If we are to do this, the message must be intelligible and (90% of communication is nonverbal) must be done so in a way that is emotionally understood as well. If it is to be in musical form, the lyrics most be in some poetic form—that’s simply how music works. And the music also needs to have the appropriate emotional weight.

With regards to a lot of modern music—and poorly performed older music—a lot of singers fail this one. Come on, guys, swallow the mashed potatoes before you step up to the microphone. Eye contact with your audience. You are playing your instrument, not dancing with it. If you’re covering a song, listen to people who did it before you and get a feel for its style.

You and I are each other’s Sharper Iron nemesis, aren’t we? I, for one, am honored :)

The chorus of “In the Garden” concludes with, “And the joy we share as we tarry there/None other has ever known.” …. that doesn’t strike you as laughably and teenagery romantic and idolatrously individualistic? If that line were in a play, a stage direction for sighing would be included.

what is that? You hate corporate music but love “corporate” Christianity? You’re just another widget in God’s plan. John E is just #2498762A/3 to God?

You know what…never mind. Have a great day.

The reason In the Garden gets picked on is that it has only one direct mention of God, 27 personal pronouns if you sing all the verses, and the benefits derived from the walk in the garden are essentially sentimental and are easily found in any loving human relationship. BTW, I like the song, I just don’t sing it at church.

Again, what? Am I the one who hates corporate music? I thought I loved corporate music.

Here’s my agenda for this entire thread, since most of the key players are here now:

1. Make popcorn

2. Sits back in chair

3. Watch intently.

Sorry gang - I’m gonna sit this one out. Enjoy.

:D

I’m told that Jay LOVES “In the Garden.” (j/k)

Seriously, Mark, you ask a good question about “In the Garden.” Here are the lyrics, slightly changed (three words, a few capitalizations).

I come to the garden alone,
While the dew is still on the roses,
And the voice I hear falling on my ear
The one I love discloses.

Refrain:
And he walks with me, and he talks with me,
And he tells me I am his own;
And the joy we share as we tarry there,
None other has ever known.

He speaks, and the sound of his voice
Is so sweet the birds hush their singing,
And the melody that he gave to me
Within my heart is ringing.

I’d stay in the garden with him,
Though the night around me be falling,
But he bids me go; through the voice of woe
His voice to me is calling.

See the problem? It’s more or less a girl’s love song with the Savior as its object. Swap out the lyrics and arrange the script right, and you could put it as a musical interlude in any romantic movie in the world.

One could argue that it hints at parts of Song of Songs, but even that is a problem, because Song of Songs is written in parts for the husband, the wife, and the friends—and each passage would be inappropriate for those of the opposite gender or wrong relationship to sing.

[Bert Perry]

One could argue that it hints at parts of Song of Songs, but even that is a problem, because Song of Songs is written in parts for the husband, the wife, and the friends—and each passage would be inappropriate for those of the opposite gender or wrong relationship to sing.

[Mark_Smith] This hymn is often treated as a punching bag by some posters here, and I’m trying to figure out what the problem is with it. John E listed it as an example of a “Jesus is my boyfriend” song…o…k…I rechecked the lyrics and to me it is about regular friendship and relationship with God (including Jesus). I don’t see the romance.

Others probably oppose it because the song suggests you can actually communicate with God and He actually, gasp, responds back to you. I think some think of God as the Great CEO who sent down the corporate manual (that is to be followed to the letter) by means of an email with one of those “please do not respond to this email address since it is not monitored” warnings!!

I read…the sto­ry of the great­est morn in his­to­ry: “The first day of the week com­eth Ma­ry Mag­da­lene ear­ly, while it was yet ve­ry dark, unto the se­pul­cher.” In­stant­ly, com­plet­ely, there un­fold­ed in my mind the scenes of the gar­den of Jo­seph….Out of the mists of the gar­den comes a form, halt­ing, he­si­tat­ing, tear­ful, seek­ing, turn­ing from side to side in be­wil­der­ing amaze­ment. Fal­ter­ing­ly, bear­ing grief in ev­e­ry ac­cent, with tear-dimmed eyes, she whis­pers, “If thou hast borne him hence”… “He speaks, and the sound of His voice is so sweet the birds hush their sing­ing.” Je­sus said to her, “Mary!” Just one word from his lips, and for­got­ten the heart­aches, the long drea­ry hours….all the past blot­ted out in the pre­sence of the Liv­ing Pre­sent and the Eter­nal Fu­ture.

Two thoughts come to mind as I’m catching up on this thread. First, I think some people err when they think that any music labeled Christian is expected to be used in corporate worship. I have a wide taste in music and almost exclusively listen to music that could be called Chrsitian in some form or fashion. Third Day is one of my favorite all-time groups. I have quite a bit of Crowder on my iPhone and have really enjoyed seeing him in concert. I love listening to Chris Tomlin, Casting Crowns, The Gettys, Mercy Me, and even some Lecrae and Shai Linne. HOWEVER, there is very little of any of their music that I would expect to hear in church. I listen to it throughout the day and it is an encouragement, challenge, time of personal worship, and simply just for entertainment. Oops….did I just say the E word??!!!! Some Christians act as if it is a terrible thing to have entertainment! I am the music director at our church (pretty conservative church) and have done some Chris Tomlin and some Getty stuff, but it would be near impossible to do some of the stuff I listen to. I wholeheartedly agree that we are to sing and we are to sing with understanding. If a corporate body cannot sing a song, then it should be attempted corporately. That means that some songs could be done in one church while it would be impossible for the church members across the road to sing it. That’s ok. It seems though that some think we cannot have any Christian music that could not be sung corporately.

Concerning In the Garden, I personally hate the song simply because it just isn’t my taste. However, I do think it is unjustly criticized (am I on the same musical side as Mark Smith??!!!). Yes, it is pretty sappy and you need to be in touch with your feminine side a bit to sing it, but most here wouldn’t say anything if I walked up to you and said

“Man, I was reading a passage early this morning and it was like God was walking and talking directly with me! It was sweet! It was such an awesome time that I could have spent the entire day and into the night with Him in Scripture.”

This is essentially saying the same thing as In the Garden just without the flowery verbiage. There really isn’t anything Scripturally wrong with the verbiage but you just have to check your man card if singing it! However, many women may not want to sing something a little bit rougher and tougher either!! My point is that the song is a response to the time someone spent with Christ! Isn’t that the pattern that Psalm 100 follows? It tells something about God (theology) and then simply exalts Him in the next phrase (praise). The author had his theology and wrote a song of praise as a response. I often do this with our congregation musically as well. I’ll do a theologically deep song such as The Power of the Cross and then follow it up with a song that is nothing more than praise without any theology attached. Nothing wrong with that. So I believe In the Garden gets a bit of unjust ribbing though I hate singing it!

I am curious what musical side I am on?

Here at SI people probably think I am a “hard case” traditional, but at FBFI meetings I am a “liberal”… :-D

I like Paul Baloche songs….gasp!

Especially “Offering”, “Your Name”, “Greater Song”

And truth be told, I don’t see what is wrong with repeating lines in songs…For example, when I do “Offering” at church, we sing it through twice…oh my!

[Jay]

Here’s my agenda for this entire thread, since most of the key players are here now:

1. Make popcorn

2. Sits back in chair

3. Watch intently.

Sorry gang - I’m gonna sit this one out. Enjoy.

Jay, any truth to the rumor you were once a closet Stryper & White Heart fanatic? :-)!