By Jim Nov 03 2016 Donald TrumpRobert Jeffress"For Christians not to enthusiastically vote for #Trump, to me, is morally inexcusable." 3333 reads There are 12 Comments To Pastor Jeffress TylerR - Thu, 11/03/2016 - 9:57pm No. Goodbye. Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist? Supreme court... and "maybes" Aaron Blumer - Fri, 11/04/2016 - 6:24am Jeffress is apparently unaware that almost nobody with principles is "enthusiastic" about Trump. The constant refrain I hear from the more sane (definitely not enthusiastic) supporters is "He'll help with Supreme Court" and variations of "We know what Hillary will do, but maybe Trump will do better." Two facts bury these arguments: a. A man with the character of Trump cannot be trusted to even try to appoint better justices. Men way better than him have tried and failed. b. We do know what Trump will do. He has already done it and will continue to do it: he will destroy what little principle and credibility is left to any evangelicalism or conservatism that is associated with him. Already mostly complete. Presidency seals it instantly. Winning elections is a means to an end, not an end in itself. If we betray everything we believe in to "win," we have done something worse than losing. Pastor Jeffress should preach from Isaiah 30 this Sunday JBL - Fri, 11/04/2016 - 7:39am He might find some parallels between Israel's choice and the current political situation. 1 “Ah, stubborn children,” declares the Lord, “who carry out a plan, but not mine, and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit, that they may add sin to sin; 2 who set out to go down to Egypt, without asking for my direction, to take refuge in the protection of Pharaoh and to seek shelter in the shadow of Egypt! 3 Therefore shall the protection of Pharaoh turn to your shame, and the shelter in the shadow of Egypt to your humiliation. 4 For though his officials are at Zoan and his envoys reach Hanes, 5 everyone comes to shame through a people that cannot profit them, that brings neither help nor profit, but shame and disgrace.” John B. Lee Who is this guy Jay - Fri, 11/04/2016 - 8:11am And why should I care about what he thinks politically? "Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells Jeffress pastors First WallyMorris - Fri, 11/04/2016 - 8:34am Jeffress pastors First Baptist Dallas Texas, the church W. A. Criswell pastored for many years. Like many Christians, Southern Baptists are also divided about Trump. I suspect Jeffress is speaking as much to fellow Southern Baptists as well as to others, since some prominent Southern Baptists have expressed serious reservations about Trump. Wally Morris Charity Baptist Church Huntington, IN amomentofcharity.blogspot.com Sigh Bert Perry - Fri, 11/04/2016 - 9:37am I'll be pulling the lever for Drumpf, but not enthusiastically, and the biggest reason I've got is that most of the Senate already hates his guts and will not hesitate to throw him out on the curb if (when?) he misbehaves in an impeachment conviction. Sad to say, there are at least 34 Democrats in the Senate who will fail to do the same for Hilliary. Hence Drumpf is the safer choice. Aspiring to be a stick in the mud. Impeachment JBL - Fri, 11/04/2016 - 10:25am At least 42% of the electorate will be voting for Trump. I don't begrudge their choice, but would take issue on some of the reasons why they are doing so. The impeachment argument that Bert makes is one that I believe is flawed. He could be impeached, but I don't think it's likely, and a lot events will have to line up for things to get to that point. All in all, I don't think congressional Democrats will mind that much if he is in office. I submit the following reasons: 1) The man is fundraising and campaigning gold for Democrat candidates. If Trump is elected, the 2018 midterms will be a Democrat wave as they will ride voter's distaste for Trump up and down the ticket. There are a number of Democrat held Senate seats that could be competitive with a Clinton presidency. They will not be competitive with a Trump presidency. Among them are Bill Nelson (FL), Claire McCaskill (MO), Bob Casey (PA), Tim Kaine (VA). 2) Trump has bluster but no convictions. He has no charm or charisma. He will not be able to work the press or to influence dialog on any issue. He will either be a sock puppet for token Republican causes or waffle and embrace whatever political decision will be best for him. This means he will be easy to manipulate or use as a strawman. It's a win-win for Democrats. 3) Since Trump will not be able to affect change, all the current Washington constituencies get the status quo. That's good for them, and good for the incumbents. Who votes for incumbents? Those who most benefit from the current political largesse and favoritism. There are no moral or ethical values in Washington that cannot be overlooked with the right political motivation. Impeachment will require a Justice Department investigation, and Trump will nominate Justice Department leadership who will be sympathetic for him, and for the above reasons, the Democrats will not push too hard for impeachment. Furthermore, if Trump is impeached, congressional Democrats get Mike Pence, who would be orders of magnitude worse for them to deal with. No way will impeachment be at the top of their agenda. John B. Lee A little English... JNoël - Fri, 11/04/2016 - 10:28am If we exegete his sentence, isn't he actually just referring to those Christians who are already planning to vote for Trump, and then judging them by whether or not they they are voting for him enthusiastically? Ashamed of Jesus! of that Friend On whom for heaven my hopes depend! It must not be! be this my shame, That I no more revere His name. -Joseph Grigg (1720-1768) For a Pastor Jim - Fri, 11/04/2016 - 12:52pm For a Pastor to make a statement like this is morally inexcusable. Twitter Jim's Doctrinal Statement Agreed Bert Perry - Fri, 11/04/2016 - 5:24pm John Lee, agreed that a Trump ouster is unlikely....the key issue there is that I do have evidence that Republicans will unite against a criminal President (that's why Nixon resigned), but Democrats will not (Clinton impeachment). So I can rephrase my argument for voting for someone I consider morally flawed as "it's possible Trump could be ousted if need be, but almost impossible that Clinton would be." And if you inferred that I'm saying that Democrats will support for criminals as long as there is a "d" after their name, yes, that is correct at certain levels. Aspiring to be a stick in the mud. Convergence! Pastor Joe Roof - Fri, 11/04/2016 - 8:08pm Convergence! So If I Abstain I'm Sinner Joeb - Fri, 11/04/2016 - 11:51pm I'm not voting for President just down ticket. I agree with Aaron to compromise yourself to win just is not worth it. I don't believe the ends justify the means. I worked for US government for 27 1/2 years and I have seen what politics has done at the IRS. They had a program in which the IRS assigned numbers to legal non citizens residing in this country so they could report income they earned for short time periods. It was called the ITIN program. It morphed into a program in which they were giving the ITINs to illegal aliens wholesale so they could file tax returns with the ITIN but used stolen SSNs on their W 2 s They were even giving these people earned income credit money too. Well the other half of my agency was Internal Audit my half was Internal Security. Well the Internal Audit sent in a whole report to Congress to shut it down by saying the IRS was breaking Federal Immigration law. What happened? Nothing. Why, because the Democrats like illegals for future voters and the Republicans like them for cheap labor for businesses. Both sides are using them for their own means. People accuse inter-city minorities of milking the system. What do you think all those Landscapers do. They have whole crews of illegals. The Foreman is the only guy on the books. The Landscapers underreport income and only have work comp insurance on the Foreman. When Pablo or Luey chop their thump off they stick it in a cup of ice and drop him off at the Emergency room. Who pays for that every one else but not the Landscaper. Hence why the Republicans like illegal aliens. Cheap disposable labor. I could tell you other stories to of Political influence on Federal Agencies. Both sides. It's a joke. No wonder we're going broke. For all You US Marines in Sharper Iron. I do have some good news. The Marines do all their own contracting and administration. Guess what their the best in the whole government ie no $700 hammers or very few. They take no prisoners dealing private industry either. If the Federal Government was operated by the Marines we would all be a lot happier. You know logical common sense and straight forward. Like Bert. Bert when Government road runs out please throw a few coins in my cup. I got a feeling Federal Retirees are going to get smoked. Obama threw us in with Obama care. My health insurance is not so hot. Most car dealerships I sold cars for offered better health insurance than what I have for $100 dollars less a month. I even had the exact same plan as some of the other car salesman. Sorry guys not to enthusiastic about this election.