"I don’t care if it gives you tears or goosebumps, the question that matters is, ‘Is it true?’”

When folks leave the service they are humming the songs not the sermons. This article makes a good point, poetic license not withstanding.

Obviously, a song’s text must be true, but true is not enough; it must be more than that.

which is true? uhmm… both?

anyway, how many people are singing this song from a hymnbook? wouldn’t it largely come from a screen?

words get substituted all the time. how many people have substituted “Christian” in “O Zion, Haste” without even knowing it had anything to do with amillennialism?

looks like lifeway chopped out a bunch of hymns a few years back too:

• Allen, Bob (September 5, 2008). “Omitted Titles in New Baptist Hymnal Reflect Theological Shift”. EthicsDaily.com.

[Dave Gilbert]

…ordaining women as pastors and allowing them to teach congregations despite God’s commandment to the contrary ( 1 Timothy 2:8-15 )…it also ordains homosexual ministers, baptizes infants, performs “same sex unions, ”

some things are not the same, and paedobaptism doesn’t fit with the others you list!

[Dave Gilbert]

The reason I listed all of them, is the fact that if PCUSA were following Scripture, they wouldn’t baptize infants anymore than they would ordain people who are living in sexual sin….would they?

I am a Baptist and the PCUSA is a liberal denomination.

With both of those out of the way, let me state that paedobaptism is not sin nor apostasy, and therefore does not belong in a list that includes sin and apostasy.

There are a number of conservative Presbyterian groups: PCA, ARP, Bible to list a few.

As Presbyterians, they practice covenant baptism, because they believe that is the correct form.

To suggest that they are not “following Scripture” because you hold to a different form, is to show your lack of understanding of their position, and a lack of charity to your brothers in Christ,

The reason I listed all of them, is the fact that if PCUSA were following Scripture, they wouldn’t baptize infants anymore than they would ordain people who are living in sexual sin….would they?

That’s not actually true, Dave. Baptizing infants isn’t actually sin. It’s the failure to baptize believers that is sin. It is true that the theology behind Presbyterian infant baptism is faulty theology. But in truth, it is very similar to what Baptists do in baby dedication (which I call baby dry cleaning). In the list of things wrong in the PCUSA, baptizing babies is pretty far down the list.

In addition, infant baptism for the Roman Catholic Church is something entirely different than infant baptism in the Presbyterian church. Failure to make these distinctions is something akin to bearing false witness. It misleads people concerning the actual distinctions.

We should take care that we properly represent those who disagree with us.

Larry, how much do you charge for dry cleaning? I charge extra for heavy starch.

Why would I not be a fundamentalist? Even if some have given it a bad public connotation, does not mean I should cease believing and practiicg the fundamentals of the Holy Scriptures

which live and abide forever.

Because I do believe the fundamentals of Holy Scriptures, I am totally unashamed to be a Bible believing fundamentalist who happens to believe Baptists were given that label by those who

hated them or named them that because of their stand on baptism.

When I accepted the fact that I am a Baptist doctrinally, I never looked back regardless of what others thought. I cannot stand the thought of being or not being true to Holy Scripture from

my understanding because another mortal flesh told me to be or not to be or because it is or isn’t politically correct in the religious sense, or just to attract people.

The truth is, and we all know this, sprinkling IS NOT a Bible command. Baptism is a Bible command. I understand Covenant Theology believes this as a covering until the age of accountability. I do not agree with that,

but must allow room for those who do believe that.

By the way, the only age I know of mentioned in Holy Scripture on age for accountability is twenty. Nu. 14:29. Does anyone else know of a Bible number?

Even if I do not see the same from Scripture as does another, I respect them for being true to God’s Word if that is what it is. I came from a broken home, saved during that time, Grew in God’s

Word with no one to teach me. Read in the Bible that when people were saved, they were baptized. So I told my Mother and Step Dad, I wanted to be baptized. In our Congregational Church, at age 11,

I was sprinkled along with about three or four babies. That is all I knew at the time, but was true to what I could grasp from Holy Scripture.

At age seventeen, found out what the Greek word for baptize is, then got immersed. All because I was given truth of Scripture. Just believe, obey and enjoy.

Do you believe and practice Bible Fundamentals? If so, why would you not call yourself a “Bible Fundamentalist”? Never allow someone else to dictate to you who you should be. That work belongs to the

One Who works in you to make you whom you should be.

Enjoyed Mike Harding’s comments.

In Christ,

Bert Baker Ex. 15:2

I remember the first time I encountered the Baptist Bride doctrine. It may have been replaced by Baptist Pride.

[Larry]…it is very similar to what Baptists do in baby dedication (which I call baby dry cleaning).

[DaveGilbert] any willful, consistent error in departing from Scripture ( if a person or group of people have been shown the error via the Bible ) is heresy ( Titus 3:10 ), and those that practice such deviations are apostate.

Theopedia defines apostasy thusly:

Apostasy is what one commits when they denounce, reject, or fall away from their faith.

and heresy as:

…is a teaching or practice which denies one or more essentials of the Christian faith, divides Christians, and deserves condemnation.

Paedobaptism is neither! It is just a different form of baptism.

The dirty little secret is that Baptists baptize many unbelievers as well, unless one is going to insist that all those who profess faith, actually possess faith, which seems to go against Matt. 7:21.

[BertBaker] I understand Covenant Theology believes this as a covering until the age of accountability. I do not agree with that, but must allow room for those who do believe that.

Exactly! There’s enough room in the kingdom for both views and when we are together in eternity it will no longer matter.

A very popular hymn in my church is My Jesus Fair, which includes the phrase “That God should die for men”. It’s a beautiful hymn and I love singing it, but this one phrase causes me great grief. Poetic license notwithstanding, I find it difficult, however, to sing about God dying. He is Immortal, and as such can not die.

So when we get to that phrase, I just sing out “That Christ should die for men”.

Bob,

Was/is Christ God? Same difference.

Would you allow for a Christmas carol entitles “God is Born”?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-H4cU0Ji6A