Daniel Darling Fired from NRB After Pro-Vaccine Remarks

"The ministry’s former spokesman had appeared in national media explaining why he as a Christian trusts the COVID-19 vaccine." - C.Today

Related at National Review: Here’s What Got Evangelical Pastor Dan Darling Fired
C.Post: NRB fires spokesman Dan Darling for violating vaccine-neutral policy: 'Sad and disappointed'
RNS: NRB spokesman Dan Darling fired after pro-vaccine statements on ‘Morning Joe’

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Aaron Blumer's picture

EditorAdmin

From Have We Lost Our Minds?

Dan Darling is a gentle man of God who advocates for godly conversation and a biblical regard for one another as fellow image-bearers. He has written excellent books on online conversation and how we can better reflect Christ in them. In his conversations with others, he lives that out.

...

Dan Darling lives out what he says, but evidently the board of the NRB does not. Nearly a month after Dan spoke, they have decided that Dan, for being respectful in stating an opinion that differs from the radical conspiracy theorists who seem to control religious broadcasting and evidently, the Board of Directors of the NRB, is unfit for employment there.

They have fired Dan WITHOUT SEVERANCE (he has a family) for expressing his views respectfully and not kowtowing broadcasters who loudly spout anti-vaxx theories and sow division in the church.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

dgszweda's picture

I am pro-vaccine, but unfortunately he violated the companies rules.  Rules that he knew about.  Companies are private and can have their own viewpoints and rules, and as an employee and in exchange for compensation you are required to follow them.

What is disappointing is that the CEO had publicly expressed his view on the success of the vaccines, which would appear to also violate the companies stance.  So there seems to be some inconsistency here.

Loosing a severance for not signing a document like what was indicated above is not uncommon.

Bert Perry's picture

Agreed that he violated "policy", but reality is NRB needs to step back and ask themselves what their policy is doing.  In my view, what it's doing is giving carte blanche to the "nonsense" artists (I'm thinking a blunter term, to be honest) to have the rule of the roost in spreading lies about everything going on here.  

I've been seeing a lot of crazy arguments lately, and as far as I can tell, it's getting people killed.  So we ought to support factual arguments here, not punish them.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

T Howard's picture

If he's a pastor, he's still receiving a paycheck from his church.

Mark_Smith's picture

should not put you on the hot seat. The only reason the NRB has a neutral position on the COVID vaccine is due to the turbulent times we live in where people are putting too much value behind sources of information of no value.

Dan Miller's picture

“Reflecting this somewhat unsettled period in the Theological School's history, Kuyper's first visit was occasioned by a conflict between the Theological School and the police regarding the imposition of smallpox vaccinations upon all Dutch schools. The first generation of Afgescheidenen was strongly opposed to vaccinating their children, which they saw as an act of unbelief in God's providence, although by 1871, the second generation of Seceders had begun to embrace preventive medicine. In this context, Kuyper had already taken a publicly provaccination stance since 1865, and he addressed the Theological School as one who advocated both religious freedom and modern medicine, while also encouraging the Seceders to reject the imposition.”

From Chapter 4 of by Bavinck - A Critical Biography by James Eglinton

Dan Miller's picture

Mark_Smith wrote:

According to the AMA 96% of physicians in the US are fully vaccinated against COVID.

Yeah, that reflects my experience with peers.

  • Most of us got the vaccine as soon as we could. 
  • I had COVID in Nov, so when I was offered the vaccine in Dec, I didn't bother (actually didn't want to take doses from those who needed it more than I did). I probably still would not have gotten it except that I had persistent loss of smell 4 months after and I read that many people who had long term loss of smell saw it return after the vaccine, which it did for me.
  • I know a couple docs who are refusing the vaccine.
  • I know MANY who believe that while they recommend the vaccine, it should NOT be required, nor should it become a public matter as to whether they did or didn't.

 

dgszweda's picture

Dan Miller wrote:

  • I know MANY who believe that while they recommend the vaccine, it should NOT be required, nor should it become a public matter as to whether they did or didn't.

I am not necessarily making a point of whether it should or should not be required.  With that said, the relatively small percentage of historical anti-vax individuals (in the last 30-40 years) have had a relatively easy approach because we have not had pandemics that are impacted by a vaccine.  We have people refusing vaccines that are associated with rubella, smallpox..... which today are rare diseases.  While vaccines are important to make them continue to be rare, it has made it an easy discussion for doctors because, if the chance occurs where you are are faced with someone who does not want the smallpox vaccine the risk is very low.

We could move into a scenario where the risk of the pandemic is high and the risk of death is very high.  If COVID had a death rate of 50% for those who contract the disease and it spreads easily, the discussion would be very different.  The anti-vax crowd has historically had an easy ride as they have relied on the relative safety afforded them from the vaccination population.  In addition, doctors have had a historically easy ride because the number of anti-vax (pre-COVID) has been relatively small and the risk has been very low, which has not required hard discussions.

COVID risk to healthy people is considerably higher than the risk afforded smallpox today.  The next pandemic may hit sooner and it may even be considerably higher than COVID in terms of risk and so these "harder" discussions may need to take place.

Bert Perry's picture

I remember asking a man about 20 years older than I about what he thought about people who were against vaccination, and he shot me a perplexed glance and said "don't they remember polio?"  A lot of resistance to vaccines has to do with the relative risks that we faced then vs. now--OK, then vs. "before the 'rona".  

Another big part of it--and I write as a guy who's read a lot of materials from doctors recommending vaccination--a lot of the problem is also that for whatever reasons, the NIH/CDC and others have gotten out of the habit of actually presenting the data, favoring a cartoon version (yes) of appeal to authority.  

And without citing the data and presenting it, that left the door wide open for those who will present all kinds of nonsense with no crisis of conscience.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

dcbii's picture

EditorModerator

dgszweda wrote:

Dan Miller wrote:

  • I know MANY who believe that while they recommend the vaccine, it should NOT be required, nor should it become a public matter as to whether they did or didn't.

 

If COVID had a death rate of 50% for those who contract the disease and it spreads easily, the discussion would be very different.

I definitely agree with Dan's last observation from many physicians that the vaccine should not be required and one's vaccination history should not become public.

And I'd say you are absolutely right about the Covid death rate.  As I see it, the resistance, such as it is, is coming from a confluence of several factors:

  1. The prevarication among our political and health leaders about the source and danger of the virus, as well as about mask use, politicization of the naming of the virus, etc.
  2. Discussions from leaders and media about absolutely refusing any vaccine developed under Trump, and then miraculously thinking it's great with Biden in office.
  3. The fact that the death rate is nowhere near 50%, and that most of the around 1.7% death rate that is known/seen is coming from people with high or very high risk factors, not to mention not taking into account the suspected large numbers of unreported Covid cases.
  4. The fact that much of the population is wigging out and going all fascist about requiring vaccinations or suggesting very large restrictions on people who are unvaccinated, and declaring that they are "killing people."

If the fatality rate for Covid were 50% (or even 30-40% like MERS, or even ~11% like SARS), I suspect there would be little resistance at all, except from the true anti-vaxxers, and I still think they are too small in number to matter.

Dave Barnhart

dgszweda's picture

dcbii wrote:

If the fatality rate for Covid were 50% (or even 30-40% like MERS, or even ~11% like SARS), I suspect there would be little resistance at all, except from the true anti-vaxxers, and I still think they are too small in number to matter.


 

The difference between something like MERS and COVID, is that there were only two confirmed cases of MERS ever in the US.  There are 40 Million confirmed cases in the US and almost 700,000 deaths.  The fatality rate is only one indicator.  How quick it spreads, complications.... also impact the concern.  I think at the end of the day, even among the liberal elite, the biggest concern is overwhelming the hospital systems and the unneeded dying of vulnerable patients.  While the death rate maybe ~1.7% if it was your grandparents, that number might be meaningless.

In the end, where we have gotten to in this country is less about anti-vaxxers and really people more concerned with individual liberty than liberty as a whole.  Misinformation is played with for ratings and attention as well as to support a belief and less about the real facts.  I doubt the resistance would go away.  We have entered this weird stage in American history, where people will die from COVID concerned about the safety of a tested substance, because Hannity raised a concern in contrast with those running to the store and buying horse dewormer because Tucker Carlson said it was a cure.  The insanity that we have gotten too is amazing, especially given the excellent data that we have available to ourselves at our fingertips compared to any other time in history.

Poilo has been eradicated since 1979 in the US.  With no cases or death in the US for over 40 years.  The percentage of children vaccinated by the age of 2 in the US is 92.6%.  The polio vaccine is a required vaccine for children to take prior to enrolling in a school (except for certain exemptions).    How did we go so bonkers with COVID?

Kevin Miller's picture

dgszweda wrote:

in contrast with those running to the store and buying horse dewormer because Tucker Carlson said it was a cure. 

Actually, the FDA says it's a cure as well, only not for covid.  Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms. Also, some topical forms of ivermectin are approved to treat external parasites like head lice. So it's really not just a horse dewormer. It's also used in humans, and this wouldn't be the first time a drug has had off label uses. Some studies have shown promise of ivermectin also being an antiviral drug as well as being antiparasitic. 

dgszweda's picture

Kevin Miller wrote:

 

dgszweda wrote:

 

in contrast with those running to the store and buying horse dewormer because Tucker Carlson said it was a cure. 

 

Actually, the FDA says it's a cure as well, only not for covid.  Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms. Also, some topical forms of ivermectin are approved to treat external parasites like head lice. So it's really not just a horse dewormer. It's also used in humans, and this wouldn't be the first time a drug has had off label uses. Some studies have shown promise of ivermectin also being an antiviral drug as well as being antiparasitic. 

Well that is the key.  It is not a cure for COVID.  I realize it is used to treat some conditions within humans.  The problem is that some people are actually buying the drug from their feed store and taking wrong doses of it.  As always, a doctor can prescribe off label.  At this time, there are no studies that show that this has any effect on COVID in humans.

What blows my mind is that we have a vaccine from numerous companies, who have spent billions developing and distributing.  It has passed extensive clinical trials across many different health agencies (EMEA, FDA...) and has been distributed over a billion doses.  The vaccine has been shown to be effective against COVID in hospitalizations and deaths.  People are ignoring that because they don't trust the science, government, you name it....., but some media personalities push for Ivermectin with no human studies having been done and people are rushing to it.  The lunacy of the public is mind boggling.  The FDA has to issue warnings as hospitalizations from Ivermectin poisioning has increased.  The one study that was touting improvements was withdrawn over plagairism and false data (of which no one seems concerned about in the conservative media, because real cheating isn't bad, just perceived cheating that fits their narrative is bad).

Why we keep chasing after some type of drug when we refuse to accept a vaccine is mind blowing.  But such is the intelligence of modern society.

Aaron Blumer's picture

EditorAdmin

I've been trying to some writing on the topic of the universal problem of human stupidity (a whole of it from experience of my own!)... but the topic keeps growing while I'm trying to settle on some piece of it to write about. One of the things that fascinates me is all the ways stupid happens.

  • fatigue
  • hurry/urgency
  • distraction
  • emotions: anger/fear/thrill/anticipation/desire
  • laziness
  • overwhelming complexity
  • distrust
  • prior commitments/being vested in a belief
  • sense of identity/tribe
  • sense of personal identity
  • of course, ignorance (willing, intentional, and unavoidable species)

These overlap a good bit as categories and, of course, can coexist.

The list grows and grows.

It's only because of common grace that we humans haven't completely self-destructed long before now!

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

Joeb's picture

We went Bonkers because our President lied to us about it. The Left then ran with it big time because they knew the truth about Covid and weaponized that truth.  That's what caused Trump's people to go BONKERS along with the Christian Right. The battle Royal was on and is still on.  

In regards to Donald I listen podcasts even some left wing podcasters admit that if Trump showed sympathy and empathy for the COVID dying and jumped into the Masks supporting them BIDEN would never have won.  NEVER.  Even a halfway effort would have worked for Trump but he cut his own throat by going with the crazies.  I believe his one campaign Manager tried to get Trump to do that but the NUTS on his staff shouted down that campaign manager and had him removed.  That was the end for DONALD.  
 

In regards to the Gentleman losing his job for saying he was provax I have to say if his Employer did not want their employees commenting in any way then that's what he signed up for. It's the employers business or non profit whatever.  You follow the rules of the entity paying you or go elsewhere.  

Note: Aaron I'd make a perfect example for your case study  

 

Bert Perry's picture

Certainly "The Donald" had something to do with it, but let's put Fauci and the Democrats on the spot, too.  It wasn't Trump who decided to shut down the rest of the economy while sending COVID patients into nursing homes, for example, and it wasn't the Republicans that were (at least initially) saying that they would never trust a vaccine developed under Trump's leadership.  Both sides of the aisle (I'd argue more on the port side) were playing political games with peoples' lives, really.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

JohnBrian's picture

Read both of these articles this morning.

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/the-great-ivermectin-...

We have a media blackout on how India used cheap Ivermectin to obliterate the Delta variant while we struggle unsuccessfully to sell the public on problematic yet profitable vaccines. 

 

https://aapsonline.org/aaps-letter-to-ama-re-ivermectin-and-covid/

The AMA is thus contradicting the professional judgment of a very large number of physicians, who are writing about 88,000 prescriptions per week. It also contradicts the Chairman of the Tokyo Medical Association, Haruo Ozaki, who recommended that all doctors in Japan immediately begin using Ivermectin to treat COVID.

 

CanJAmerican - my blog
CanJAmerican - my twitter
whitejumaycan - my youtube

Joeb's picture

[quote=Bert Perry]

Certainly "The Donald" had something to do with it, but let's put Fauci and the Democrats on the spot, too.  It wasn't Trump who decided to shut down the rest of the economy while sending COVID patients into nursing homes, for example, and it wasn't the Republicans that were (at least initially) saying that they would never trust a vaccine developed under Trump's leadership.  Both sides of the aisle (I'd argue more on the port side) were playing political games with peoples' lives, really.

Even though I'm a Never Trumper the Left saw an opening when Trump foolishly handled COVID.   The left weaponized that to great success. It put Biden in the Whitehouse.  The Moderate Republicans in the Suburbs turned on Trump.  Plus a larger African American turn out. The African American community did not like Killary. That's the only reason Trump got in the Whitehouse.  

pvawter's picture

Yeah, but everyone knows these are just ignorant rubes using a horse dewormer in order to stick it to the American Left. 

Lol

 

JohnBrian wrote:

Read both of these articles this morning.

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/the-great-ivermectin-...

We have a media blackout on how India used cheap Ivermectin to obliterate the Delta variant while we struggle unsuccessfully to sell the public on problematic yet profitable vaccines. 

 

https://aapsonline.org/aaps-letter-to-ama-re-ivermectin-and-covid/

The AMA is thus contradicting the professional judgment of a very large number of physicians, who are writing about 88,000 prescriptions per week. It also contradicts the Chairman of the Tokyo Medical Association, Haruo Ozaki, who recommended that all doctors in Japan immediately begin using Ivermectin to treat COVID.

 

Aaron Blumer's picture

EditorAdmin

It's always strange to me how quickly people latch on to narratives involving medical professionals suppressing helpful medical treatments. Why would they do that?

I'm not saying it's impossible, but for the most part, these are people who's careers are dedicated to advancing health as they see it. So, it's way more likely that they'll simply be incorrect about a health issue than that they want to suppress something helpful. But the former is also quite unlikely as far as baseline probability goes.

I think the idea of baseline probability is where much of the dialog goes awry. Seems like there are two starting points/two perceptions of how likely an explanation is before even getting to evidence.

  • It's probable that lots of medical professionals want people to be sick, so they're acting against helpful treatments
  • It's probably that lots of medical professionals want to cure people of diseases, so they're acting to promote helpful treatments

I'm in the second group. So I don't need evidence that they're right, generally. I would need evidence that they're wrong--also factoring in that they've studied these things for years and years and I haven't!

This just seems like common sense to me. But it's inreasingly uncommon it seems.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

Bert Perry's picture

Aaron, I also don't want to believe that people are ignoring viable options, but the reality is that during this epidemic, certain options have been flat out ignored, and some of these options are ones where the mistakes arguably cost tens/hundreds of thousands of lives.One case of this is the failure to point out that sending COVID patients into nursing homes is pretty much homicide.  Another is the case with ivermectin.  Here's some actual NIH data that suggests a hugely reduced risk of death when it's used.

Another thing that may be huge is that it's becoming clear that the NIH, through an intermediary, did in fact fund gain of function research at WIV using virii that are at least very similar to COVID-19.  

If the errors all seem to go one way, perhaps there's a reason for that.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Aaron Blumer's picture

EditorAdmin

Bert Perry wrote:

Aaron, I also don't want to believe that people are ignoring viable options, but the reality is that during this epidemic, certain options have been flat out ignored, and some of these options are ones where the mistakes arguably cost tens/hundreds of thousands of lives.One case of this is the failure to point out that sending COVID patients into nursing homes is pretty much homicide.  Another is the case with ivermectin.  Here's some actual NIH data that suggests a hugely reduced risk of death when it's used.

Another thing that may be huge is that it's becoming clear that the NIH, through an intermediary, did in fact fund gain of function research at WIV using virii that are at least very similar to COVID-19.  

If the errors all seem to go one way, perhaps there's a reason for that.

First, the errors do not all go one way. 

Second, funding of gain of function research... Not relevant.

Third, if someone tells me they're getting a 403 error on a website and as I'm trying to help them, they suggest rebooting their PC, I "ignore"the idea. "Ignoring" an idea, is often the result of already knowing better, or at least the result of knowing that an idea has such an extremely low probability of effectiveness it should go to the bottom of the list of things to try. It's not like we have infinite resources for trying ideas in a rigorous way that accurately measures effectiveness.

For the most part on the covid-19 problem, the ignorers among medical professionals are on the right track.

But for those who are absolutely convinced that I'm wrong, please explain to me what would motivate that. I just can't come up with realistic motives for truly ignoring a possible cure that actually has a reasonable chance of success.

I suspect that "ignoring" is hyperbole, because those who are decision makers in these roles gave the matter every bit as much thought and attention as it deserved, but those already in love with the idea didn't see it as enough... Which equals "ignoring" in the sort of rhetoric that dominates the topic these days.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

Joeb's picture

I heard the the head Dr for a group of Hospitals in Idaho speak about the recent order to ration care due to Covid.  Being that rationing area is pretty much Lilly White and TRUMPERS I have to say it certainly reflects what's going on in the other Red States.  The Dr said 100 % of his ICU Beds are full of Unvaxed patients.  The Dr said that the reason Idaho is in this situation is these people didn't get Vaxed when they had plenty of opportunity to do so.  The Dr pointed out that everyone who is not vaxed should get  vaxed because if you come to the hospital now you can't get treatment if your critical.  
 

My brother who lives in Charleston S Carolina had to take his wife to the emergency room. The Emergency Room was swamped with Covid Patients.  My brother said they almost were told to leave.  My sister-in-law had a large kidney stone she couldn't pass and was in tremendous pain.  On Wednesday this week they used the Laser to bust it up.  
 

So how is it fair that when people with heart attacks strokes and car accidents whatever get denied treatment because of foolish actions by Trumper Antivaxers.  Plus what I have read is these people especially the TRUMPERS are very demanding and angry when they come in.  I mean really.  That one Republican Pastor Antivaxer in FL is now in the hospital with Covid fighting for his life along that Pastor Miles Trump Pastor. That one Pastor said terrible things about FAUCI constantly.  Again why should these people get any treatment ahead of an innocent.  

However the medical professionals have to treat anyone no matter what.  That's how it works and I understand that.    I will say in Florida or Texas if an innocent has to take s 50 G out of pocket Air Ambulance ride due Unvaxed Covid Patients overwhelming the healthcare system the STATE TAXPAYERS should foot the bill.  Again how is it fair.  
 

In Pittsburgh PA a story came in that a Family of Antivaxers threatened violence against the County Corner of he/she put that the Unvaxed family member died of COVID.  Wow.  You go from maiming 60 cops for life for DONALD to threatening Corners just doing their jobs. It's unbelievable and this whole affair is mostly  Unvaxed TRUMPERS fault and a good number of them are White Evangelical TRUMPERS.  

Even the Alabama Republican Woman Governor  whose a BJU grad spoke out in a very angry way about Antivaxers.  This Governor blamed them for what was happening in Alabama and said it's US the Vaxed against them the Unvaxed.  No longer towing the Right Wing Line that the Foolish GOVENORS of Texas and Florida are.  Even Trump complained they were killing his voters.  
 

Oh yeah the new Proud Boys targets are school boards teachers and students over masks mandates and vaxing.  
 
I read today that based on a 1905 US Supreme Court case Biden has the power to mandate vaxing. However those fine Trumper Republicans like the whack jobs Boebert Greene and Cauthorne call Biden's moves illegal.  Greene basically told people to shoot the health officials that come to your house for vaxing purposes.

So SI people I predict within two years Trump will be back in the Whitehouse as a Mullah for life of the New Evangelical Christian Caliphate that the Christian Right so desperately pines for. Problem is there will be a lot of Blood Shed and dead Democrats.  When Trump's White Supremacist Thugs get a hold of AOC they will do unspeakable things to her and kill her.  

Dan Miller's picture

Joe, your rhetoric is ramping up beyond what is healthy. I, too, find it hard not to demonize those here who supported Biden in the last election. 

But ya gotta calm down, man. 

josh p's picture

Dan, I don't remember reading anyone who "supported Biden during the last election." I know there were some, such as myself, who did not support Trump but I don't remember anyone actually advocating for Biden. 

Dan Miller's picture

I acknowledge that you see a distinction.