Charlottesville, White Supremacists, Evangelicals, Racists & Trump

"There is nothing American about White Supremacism -- nothing heroic, nothing praiseworthy, nothing patriotic. It is a rotten, ugly mindset full of hatred, bigotry, and pride, and every person of conscience should denounce it." CPost

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TylerR's picture

Editor

I know people from my former circles in far-right fundamentalism, who are repeating the same tired arguments right now about how black people are a cursed race, and all this trouble began because they didn't "stick to their habitations." It seems some stupid theories will never die. I always found that one particularly horrifying. Many of these people won't join a white nationalist march, but they privately support much of its goals. They are passive racists.

They also hate Muslims. One woman, whose husband is a missionary and was active ​just yesterday ​repeating the "cursed race" theory on FaceBook, referred to Muslims on FaceBook several years ago as "those bastards of Abraham." I've never forgotten that, and am glad I'm far away from that cult now. Make no mistake - some strands of fundamentalism are little more than racist, white nationalistic cults.

This is how white nationalism retains a pseudo-Chrostian gloss.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.

David R. Brumbelow's picture

“The curse of Canaan has no direct relevance to the contemporary racial situation.  The Negro was not included in the original curse, since he was not and is not a descendant of Canaan.  Even if he were a descendant of Canaan, the curse itself is no longer in force…”  

-T. B. Maston, SWBTS, in “The Bible and Race,” Broadman Press; 1959.  

http://gulfcoastpastor.blogspot.com/2017/05/t-b-maston-on-curse-of-ham.html

David R. Brumbelow

Joeb's picture

The good Dr Fighten Phil is a Tea Party Manager. So Tyler the people you speak of are in Trump's Camp.  So any other Fundamentalists who are Tea Partiers and  allow these people in their camp makes you want to question the whole Tea Party movement.  

Remember the one Sharper Iron Member who was a retired Missionary was a Tea Party Manager.  He bought into the blatant racism stuff with the old those were the times.  He also called blatant CRIMINAL ACTIVITY as a few human mistakes.  Boys it's called totally TWISTED SATANIC thinking.  Yet the TRUMPATEER Tea Partiers readily practice the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  So maybe the truth hurts, but these Fundy/White Evangelicals need to be called out. 

I know a Pastor who walked away from this crowd.  He makes no bones about it.  These people are twisted and have been taught twisted thinking from their Bible Colleges and Churches.

 I know one Bible College which will remained unnamed whose President of the board is a known adulterer.  It is alleged that Jack Hyles set him up with a young girl whose now his wife or fellow adulterer.  Wow just the kind of Bible College I want to go to.  One that honors blatant sin yet the hardcore Right of Fundementalism looks the other way just like they do with the racism.  

How do you think our African American Believers look at us when White Fundy/Evangelical Tea Partiers are walking arm and arm with these blatant racists.  You tell me.  I say we look like the fools we are.   

Joeb's picture

For all you Tea Partiers out there.  You and the Republicans and Trump now control everything and you still can't get business done. Not even the most major issue Obamacare you have been harping about that for 7 years.  No wonder poor Donald is pulling his comb over out of his head.

The opportunity the Republicans have been handed is once in a life time to remold our gov.  At this point do something that moves the ship in the right direction with fiscal conservatism being the utmost priority on your minds.

Sorry had to diverge   Even though Donald deserves the flak he gets re the racism issue.  He doesn't need the Republican loosers in both houses not taking care of business  

What's there excuse now.  They can't blame the democrats Hillary or Obama.  They own it all.   

Bert Perry's picture

I've had a few interactions with modern racists--thankfully not as many as Tyler appears to have had--and one thing that comes to mind is that they are, in my view, pretty much impervious to evidence.  I remember one guy I knew was convinced that Obama was a Muslim, and wasn't even budged from his position when I pointed out that Obama enjoys his liquor and pork, worships with Christians at Christian churches, and has never tried to complete more than one of the five pillars of Islam.  (I'm guessing he did recite the Shahada as a child, but I can't even prove that)

So this kind really only comes out by prayer and fasting.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

TylerR's picture

Editor

Racism and anti-Musim rhetoric often combine with a virulent, "conservative" political ideology to form a noxious, deadly stew of American "Christian" nationalism. As is the case with many subversive movements, many of the people involved are indoctrinated with propoganda which reinforces their existing stereotypes, are easily led, and generally not well-educated. Their leaders frequently are well led, intelligent and well-educated.  

This kind of passive racist, nationalistic, white "Christian" Americana (i.e. a civic religion) is still very common in some regions of this country. Unfortunately, these elements are often associated with Donald Trump supporters. Witness the backlash against Russell Moore in the SBC for his comments against Trump over the past few months. See my own brief comments (above) about what I've observed from some folks in the far-right wing of fundamentalism. There are a whole host of issues swirling about.

Very sad.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.

David R. Brumbelow's picture

Yes, most of the extreme right wing folks voted for Trump.  

And, most of the extreme left wing folks voted for Clinton.  

That does not mean either are responsible for every single person who voted for them; or their extremist views.  

Those who opposed Russell Moore (ERLC) were in no way racists; they had problems with his attitudes, etc.  And, Moore apologized for some of that.  

David R. Brumbelow

TylerR's picture

Editor

David:

My comments about Moore were more about the issue of American Nationalism taking on a "Christian" gloss. This same problem is obvious in some strands of the "Christian" white nationalist movements. They're generally different people, but there is some overlap.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.

Steve Newman's picture

and we should not ever condone it. There is no place for segregation or a monocultural "Americanism" that is so reactionary. The model church of Antioch was multicultural and multiracial. Can we get to that today? 

However, we also need to allow freedom of speech. I've seen a lot of calls from the left saying Nazis have no right to speak. That is just as wrong, even though their ideology is so foul. 

T Howard's picture

As I've thought about the events of the past week, I've wondered whether racism and groups that promote racism are driven more by fear than by hate? Certainly, there are groups driven by hate. But, others seem more driven by fear. Does that make a difference in how we address the issue within our churches?

As for the church being multicultural, I think we need to be careful not to sign up for the baggage that goes along with multiculturalism. There are some things about various cultures (including my own) that Christians need to outright reject. The Bible certainly speaks of the church being multiracial and multiethnic. I'm not sure it promotes multiculturalism, as is commonly defined today.

Joel Shaffer's picture

T Howard wrote:

As I've thought about the events of the past week, I've wondered whether racism and groups that promote racism are driven more by fear than by hate? Certainly, there are groups driven by hate. But, others seem more driven by fear. Does that make a difference in how we address the issue within our churches?

As for the church being multicultural, I think we need to be careful not to sign up for the baggage that goes along with multiculturalism. There are some things about various cultures (including my own) that Christians need to outright reject. The Bible certainly speaks of the church being multiracial and multiethnic. I'm not sure it promotes multiculturalism, as is commonly defined today.

One of the themes within the book of the book of Acts describes the church beginning as multi-ethnic but struggled to become multi-cultural (in the Biblical sense).  In Acts 6, 8, 10, 11, 13, 15, the early church had to deal with cultural issues and it sometimes it got messy!   What I've seen from my 27 years of inner-city and multi-ethnic ministry is that the multi-ethnic churches that have compromised on the basic tenants of the faith such as the infallibility and inerrancy of the Scriptures, original sin/depravity of man, substitutionary atonement, and final judgment are the ones that compromise on cultural issues.  

David R. Brumbelow's picture

“What about the politicians such as the city council who voted to remove a memorial that had been in place since 1924, regardless of the possible repercussions? How about the city politicians who issued the permit for the lawful demonstration to defend the statue? And why didn't the mayor or the governor see that a powder keg was about to explode and stop it before it got started?”

“I denounce bigotry and racism of every form, be it black, white or any other. My prayer is that our nation will come together. We are stronger together, and our answers lie in turning to God.”

 -Franklin Graham, Samaritan’s Purse

David R. Brumbelow

David R. Brumbelow's picture

“The hard left seemed as hate-filled as alt-right.  I saw club-wielding ‘antifa’ beating white nationalist being led out of the park.” 

-Sheryl Gay Stolberg, New York Times

David R. Brumbelow

Bert Perry's picture

People have noticed that around the country, "occupy" movements and related hard left demonstrators are not being stopped by the police, and Powerline notes that allowing group A to attack group B is, apparently, a federal felony.  The police have all but admitted standing down in this case.

Also interesting are some blatantly racist tweets by the vice mayor (seriously?) of Charlottesville.  My hunch here is that the fairly one-sided coverage of this kind of confrontation is intentional and serves to reinforce a narrative.

And really, something that puzzles me is why, if indeed the pro-Nazi (?) side of the riots believes what they are saying, they decided to go forward with the march despite the apparent set-up on the part of the city and state.  They appear to be terribly wicked men, but I cannot say that they are dumb.  Here, however, their moves were nothing short of idiotic.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Joeb's picture

If the Republicans had their house in order and we're sending many Bills to Trumps desk this situation would be less of an impact on Trump.  These House members need to cut the crap.  The Freedom Cacus and the Moderates.  They need to give in and get to the business at hand.  Half a loaf is better than  nothing.  If our country was moving along everyone would be happier.  What a shame.  

Bert's guys (The Scientists and Engineers) are doing unbelievable work in private industry.  Cutting edge tech in material sciences energy and chemistry etc.  One way to keep people from being restless is keeping them busy.  

Yes there is a struggle going on between the left and right but the right is not beholden to anyone politically.  So to me this Christian Right Nationalist garbage needs to be shut down.  When you look at the fact that it's biggest founder Jerry Fawell first anti gov crusade started with the Feds trying to force him to allow blacks in his Christian Schools this speaks volumes to the boloney of the Christian Right.  

Question to you guys are we not suppose to be selfless like our Lord.  Yes stick up for our rights if we are being trampled by the left, but is this MY rights gone to far.  What happened to changing hearts and minds through Christ.  If we were more selfless would we not be calling out our own kind who still practice blatant racism like Dr Phil Kidd and his associated Bible Colleges and Churches.  If not why or is the real truth is the leaders of Bob Jones and related churches and the GARBC and other Fundamentalist organizations still racist.  

A young black man at my church drives a limo and picked up major Tea Party Members from the Philadelphia Airport. Now he shared with me that many of his customers forget he is there and openly talk while he is driving.  Well this group of Tea Partiers did just that.  The conversation got so racist that he had to rebuke this white crowd of men and women Tea Partiers.  The Driver told them I hope you people realize I'm an African American (DUH!) and I hear everything racist you are saying.  I'm also your brother in Christ and you have greatly offended me.  

The Leader of the Pa Tea Party is a State Rep who is also a Bob Jones trained Pastor of an IFB Church.  What does this say about the Tea Party again.  I'm not saying they are all this way but enough that they should be very publically rebuking these people or throwing them out.  So far I have read nothing about them doing that.  It seems they operate on the end justifies the means for Christian Nationalism.

Again some one tell me.  If hard right Fundementalists are so big on separation why are they not very publically practicing it here including Bob Jones.  Of course they quickly throw someone out for watching Glee or listening to Rock music.  Seems to be a disconnect or we are just not hearing about the actions taken barring alumni from their campus.  Or does money talk. 

Richard Brunt's picture

Just for the record, I am a member of the Tea Party.  I did not vote for President Trump and no, I didn't vote for Hillary either.  I certainly can't vouch for all Tea Party members but I for one have found no racism there.  When I joined I have to fill out a form stating that I was not now nor ever had been a member of any racist organization.  It tock 48 hours for approval.  I guess not being from the south I have not seen racism in fundamental churches that I have been a member of.  We did have one member who was a racist and they disciplined him out of the church for it.

Richard E Brunt

Joeb's picture

Richard I did say it was not all but enough for something to be done.  I have never heard one Fundy/Evangelical Institutional Leader denounce Phil Kidd.

 I know a Pastor who was from this crowd and left. This guy is not that old.  He said that when he was a youth Pastor the WHITE Senior Pastor and WHITE Elders told him that during Youth Group activities he was suppose to keep the young black males from talking and socializing with the young white females.  Of course he refused.  

Funny that heroin was made a federal offense because the whites thought it hopped up the black males to go after the young white women.  When in truth it was not the black males the young white women had to worry about.  It was the opposite especially for the underage ones.