What’s Happening To Gordon College Is Just The Beginning

http://www.kenthovindblog.com/?p=1072

Kent Hovind, arrived in Montgomery, Alabama at the Maxwell Federal Prison Camp after his 40-hour bus ride from Berlin, New Hampshire on May 14. After being there only five days, he was called to the office, handcuffed, and taken to the Elmore County Jail. He was not informed why he was taken there and spent 21 days in the crowed, unairconditioned jail.

My family drove up to visit him, but could only see him through the glass at the Elmore County Jail. It was an emotional visit, as Dad had not seen any of his grandchildren for three years. He was never officially informed of why he was moved – which is terribly frustrating for anyone. Helpless to do anything to ease Dad’s frustration, unable to hug him, and knowing that he desperately needs dental work done made it hard to see him in these conditions. We departed our hour visit, anxious for him to get back to the Prison Camp at Maxwell AFB, as this was the best facility at which Dad had been during his seven-and-a-half year incarceration.

Wow…he’s been in jail for 7.5 years for tax evasion? A local lawyer, drunk and high on painkillers, last year ran over a little girl and killed her. He got 3 years. Perspective?

I don’t remember the details of the case but this seems odd. And why is he spending time in county jails if he is serving a federal sentence?

[Jay]

JC wrote:

I am starting to see the moral justifications for not paying taxes.

Cue: the ‘render unto Caesar’ quotes. But if you are going to justify the original Tea Party and Revolutionary War, then surely we have the same justification now. (if not more so given the current US constitution creates government as an extension of the people)

Uh….no. There are no ‘moral’ justifications for withholding taxes, especially since Jesus paid not only civil taxes but also the Jewish temple tax. (Matthew 17:22-27). The background of the revolutionary war is light-years from where we are right now.

One can argue the justification angle, but I am not sure we are really “light-years” away from revolutionary war-era issues. The real issue wasn’t taxes then but government overreach - failure of government to maintain its lawful boundaries. With the vast majority of our government today run by appointees rather than elected officials, we are encountering the exact same kinds of problems today.

[Mark_Smith]

Wow…he’s been in jail for 7.5 years for tax evasion? A local lawyer, drunk and high on painkillers, last year ran over a little girl and killed her. He got 3 years. Perspective?

I don’t remember the details of the case but this seems odd. And why is he spending time in county jails if he is serving a federal sentence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind

Conclusion: he deserved it!

someone really cared enough to go into a lot of detail on wikipedia!

http://coldfusion-guy.blogspot.com/2011/12/arrested.html

I forgot to pay license plate tabs on my 2002 pickup. (Amount $ 96)

Arrested. Charged with gross misdemeanor. Had I been convicted I would have lost my job at my bank.

Legal fees … final resolution: $ 378 fine

http://coldfusion-guy.blogspot.com/search/label/Arrested

[Mark_Smith]

someone really cared enough to go into a lot of detail on wikipedia!

True … up to 10,000 in day by one bot called LSJBOT

http://coldfusion-guy.blogspot.com/2014/07/meet-lsjbot-author-of-10000-…

[JC]

I am starting to see the moral justifications for not paying taxes.

Cue: the ‘render unto Caesar’ quotes. But if you are going to justify the original Tea Party and Revolutionary War, then surely we have the same justification now. (if not more so given the current US constitution creates government as an extension of the people)

Bad logic is bad. The christian position on paying taxes is simple: pay them.

It would certainly be a horrible thing if churches took over the duties of training men to preach the word.

[James K]

It would certainly be a horrible thing if churches took over the duties of training men to preach the word.

It would also be a good idea if those churches would also lose their tax exemptions and start paying property taxes.

James, to see happens to the level of preaching when the only training is from the local church\presbytery, one should look at the unregistered Evangelical Christian-Baptists of the former Soviet Union. While doctrinally sound (at least for a group of for lack of a better word Wesleyan), the preaching is fairly basic and rarely exegetical.

Also, I doubt the average pastors would have the training to teach preachers to level that good exegetical preaching requires of the long term.

[James K]

It would certainly be a horrible thing if churches took over the duties of training men to preach the word.

[Rob Fall]

James, to see happens to the level of preaching when the only training is from the local church\presbytery, one should look at the unregistered Evangelical Christian-Baptists of the former Soviet Union. While doctrinally sound (at least for a group of for lack of a better word Wesleyan), the preaching is fairly basic and rarely exegetical.

Also, I doubt the average pastors would have the training to teach preachers to level that good exegetical preaching requires of the long term.

James K wrote:

It would certainly be a horrible thing if churches took over the duties of training men to preach the word.

You see Rob, I keep reading this: pastors aren’t trained to teach preachers. What kind of buffoons are employed at seminaries that are churning out pastors who can’t train? Why is it when I suggest that churches do their job that I see that same thinking thrown at me?

THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN BECAUSE IT ISN’T BASED ON SCRIPTURE PEOPLE.

Who was given the RESPONSIBILITY to train faithful men? If pastors are not doing this, then they are not doing their job. They might be able to negotiate with those feisty old women in the flower committee to give an extra $53 in the budget to cover some future occasion which demands flowers. If they aren’t training the young men, they aren’t doing their God ordained responsibility.

Before you complain about the level of preaching, consider the irony of the level of preaching that exists today in a country full of seminaries and every possible resource tool at the keyboard, free of charge.

I don’t know what you do Rob. Maybe you are a pastor. If so, I challenge you to go through the NT, and make a list of the responsibilities from scripture. Set aside the by-laws and church constitution, and just focus on scripture. If you don’t have the time to fulfill scripture because of the other distractions, then wouldn’t that be dereliction of duty?

I don’t take the position that it’s impossible for a pastor to train future pastors. Or that it’s not a local church’s responsibility to see to the training of those who are called to the pulpit ministry. For example, I do know most do not have the training in the original languages (in particular NT Greek) to properly train their students in them. If we desire more and better exegetical preaching, a working knowledge of NT Greek is a requirement. My own pastor does have the knowledge but I also don’t think he has the time.

And it goes beyond the original languages, there also the matter a solid knowledge of and ability to communicate systematic theology.

No, I am in a conventional pastoral position. That’s not the road my Lord laid out for me. If God had wanted to use me to pastor a church, I do have the training. And I know my shortcomings. Pastor yes, training someone to my level of knowledge, not on your tintype.

[James K]

Rob Fall wrote:

James, to see happens to the level of preaching when the only training is from the local church\presbytery, one should look at the unregistered Evangelical Christian-Baptists of the former Soviet Union. While doctrinally sound (at least for a group of for lack of a better word Wesleyan), the preaching is fairly basic and rarely exegetical.

Also, I doubt the average pastors would have the training to teach preachers to level that good exegetical preaching requires of the long term.

James K wrote:

It would certainly be a horrible thing if churches took over the duties of training men to preach the word.

You see Rob, I keep reading this: pastors aren’t trained to teach preachers. What kind of buffoons are employed at seminaries that are churning out pastors who can’t train? Why is it when I suggest that churches do their job that I see that same thinking thrown at me?

THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN BECAUSE IT ISN’T BASED ON SCRIPTURE PEOPLE.

Who was given the RESPONSIBILITY to train faithful men? If pastors are not doing this, then they are not doing their job. They might be able to negotiate with those feisty old women in the flower committee to give an extra $53 in the budget to cover some future occasion which demands flowers. If they aren’t training the young men, they aren’t doing their God ordained responsibility.

Before you complain about the level of preaching, consider the irony of the level of preaching that exists today in a country full of seminaries and every possible resource tool at the keyboard, free of charge.

I don’t know what you do Rob. Maybe you are a pastor. If so, I challenge you to go through the NT, and make a list of the responsibilities from scripture. Set aside the by-laws and church constitution, and just focus on scripture. If you don’t have the time to fulfill scripture because of the other distractions, then wouldn’t that be dereliction of duty?

If you aren’t able / willing to fulfill 2 Timothy 2:2, you shouldn’t be in ministry, no matter how great a preacher you are. For the love of Christ, train your men!

[Chip Van Emmerik]

Jay wrote:

JC wrote:

I am starting to see the moral justifications for not paying taxes.

Cue: the ‘render unto Caesar’ quotes. But if you are going to justify the original Tea Party and Revolutionary War, then surely we have the same justification now. (if not more so given the current US constitution creates government as an extension of the people)

Uh….no. There are no ‘moral’ justifications for withholding taxes, especially since Jesus paid not only civil taxes but also the Jewish temple tax. (Matthew 17:22-27). The background of the revolutionary war is light-years from where we are right now.

Jay,

The real issue wasn’t taxes then but government overreach - failure of government to maintain its lawful boundaries. With the vast majority of our government today run by appointees rather than elected officials, we are encountering the exact same kinds of problems today.

Fine. Show me a place in the Bible where God advocates rebellion as a result of government overreach.

BTW - King George declared that the colonies were in a state of rebellion and called upon the British Army and Navy to subdue the rebellion by force and bring the instigators to England for trial. Read the Olive Branch petition and then his response:

Whereas many of our subjects in divers parts of our Colonies and Plantations in North America, misled by dangerous and ill designing men, and forgetting the allegiance which they owe to the power that has protected and supported them; after various disorderly acts committed in disturbance of the publick peace, to the obstruction of lawful commerce, and to the oppression of our loyal subjects carrying on the same; have at length proceeded to open and avowed rebellion, by arraying themselves in a hostile manner, to withstand the execution of the law, and traitorously preparing, ordering and levying war against us: And whereas, there is reason to apprehend that such rebellion hath been much promoted and encouraged by the traitorous correspondence, counsels and comfort of divers wicked and desperate persons within this realm: To the end therefore, that none of our subjects may neglect or violate their duty through ignorance thereof, or through any doubt of the protection which the law will afford to their loyalty and zeal, we have thought fit, by and with the advice of our Privy Council, to issue our Royal Proclamation, hereby declaring, that not only all our Officers, civil and military, are obliged to exert their utmost endeavors to suppress such rebellion, and to bring the traitors to justice, but that all our subjects of this Realm, and the dominions thereunto belonging, are bound by law to be aiding and assisting in the suppression of such rebellion, and to disclose and make known all traitorous conspiracies and attempts against us, our crown and dignity; and we do accordingly strictly charge and command all our Officers, as well civil as military, and all others our obedient and loyal subjects, to use their utmost endeavors to withstand and suppress such rebellion, and to disclose and make known all treasons and traitorous conspiracies which they shall know to be against us, our crown and dignity; and for that purpose, that they transmit to one of our principal Secretaries of State, or other proper officer, due and full information of all persons who shall be found carrying on correspondence with, or in any manner or degree aiding or abetting the persons now in open arms and rebellion against our Government, within any of our Colonies and Plantations in North America, in order to bring to condign punishment the authors, perpetrators, and abettors of such traitorous designs.

Given at our Court at St. James’s the twenty-third day of August, one thousand seven hundred and seventy-five, in the fifteenth year of our reign.

God save the King.