NIU has entered into a “strategic partnership” with The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

I’ll admit that I only really have much experience in the Iowa chapter. But I personally think that iron sharpening iron and conversations between pastors and leaders is not contingent upon a fellowshipping association. Dr. Myron here at Faith has open personal fellowship with pastors and leaders of Christians of almost every stripe. Catholics, Charismatics, Lutherans, etc. On sharper Iron in a lesser way we personally interact and share ideas being from many different stripes. Yet none of us are by definition in a fellowship or association together. In my personal opinion an associational fellowship should be a work group. A group of churches in agreement working closely together. This doesn’t mean that we wouldn’t hold conferences, discussions, etc. ever at any point. My viewpoint on the GARBC in general is that it would be better if it broke up into smaller groups that are more similar in order to be most effective in what it does, and less confusing for pastors and leaders to try and get together to do cooperative works. Basically I think churches and groups need to work together more within there associations and it would be easier to do so if those churches could more closely covenant together. But those subgroups of the GARBC shouldn’t shut the door on each other and separate. I would see them still talking and discussing together and even doing things together in areas specific to where they share. In fact they could still do all the same things the GARBC currently does together which isn’t all that much just fine.
For example the church I go to is in an average size town in Iowa it has a decently sized congregation I think between 200 and 300 and has a great standing and outreach in the community. It isn’t growing fast but it is growing over time. It is of a more conservative stripe as far as the type of church it is. In the same town another GARBC church was planted of a more contemporary stripe. It is still in the plant faze, but it is basically covering all the same areas that my church already reaches. In my opinion if there are two churches in the same town with a population that doesn’t demand the need for two churches from the same association, then a church plant is better placed somewhere else. Something isn’t right in the association if a church feels the need to plant a church in the same basic area that another church in the same association is already working.

Something isn’t right in the association if a church feels the need to plant a church in the same basic area that another church in the same association is already working.

Let me give you an example that might be different than what you might have experienced. Berean Baptist Church and New City Church are only 3 blocks away from each other. For 15 years, my wife and I tried to assimilate the at-risk, inner-city, and mostly African-American students from our urban ministry (Urban Transformation Ministries) into Berean. But it didn’t work. So we got the ball rolling to start New City Church. I am not the main preaching/teaching pastor (those are not my primary spiritual gifts)

Not because of the differing worship styles (Berean is a blend of both contemporary and traditional, while New City blends contemporary, black gospel and a little hip-hop) Rather Berean had so many programs throughout the week that they had no time to develop loving, long-term relationships with these students and young adults that we were discipling. In order to reach those in the ‘hood, you become family to them because most of our students come from broken, messed up families (over 90% come from single parent families, over 90% have had friends shot and killed on the streets of Grand Rapids) Becoming family to them requires spending time with them in the daily rhythms of life, not just once a week at a particular program. For instance, we have people over to our house a couple times a week, I take those whom I disciple grocerty shopping, and I take a few people to watch sports events. During those times, I am very intentional about bringing the counsel of God to whatever is going on in their lives.

By the way, New City church only has 4 programs (5 if you count the youth ministry that we do with Berean) Sunday Morning worship, City Groups throughout the week, a weekday Bible study, and we’ve adopted and serve the elementary school where we meet every Sunday. This allows myself and others in the church alot of time each week to spend time to reach out to people. As a result many from our neighborhood and within our urban ministry have become Christians and many are being discipled into leaders at New City Church. Berean is in a process of simplifying their church ministries (they had just as many programs and committees as one of the mega-churches in Grand Rapids, even though they were 1/11 the size) They are beginning to see that relationships need to become even more of a priority. As a result, there a few of our students from Urban Transformation Ministries who are beginning to embrace Berean rather than New City Church due to the strong discipling relationships that have been formed from people at Berean. Both churches agree that there is enough lost people in our neighborhood to go around. New City Church and Berean do not see themselves as competitors, even though we are only 3 blocks from each other. Also, Berean and New City Church have combined youth groups. The advantage for New City is that the structure and programming is already in place. The advantage for Berean is the ethnic diversity in leadership that come from New City. So far the partnership is working………..Berean averages about 300 each Sunday, New City Church averages about 130 each Sunday.

So in other words you are in a city that has a need for two churches that are in the same association in the same place. I also assume that a relationship was there before the plant even happened. Altoona is a small Iowa town with very little to no cultural diversity. There was no conversation/relationship with the two churches I have spoke of.

Yes to both. And I understand that our context is unique and different to many other communities. In many communities our situation would not work. The only question i have: are there enough lost people in Altoona and the rural area surrounding it for both churches to exist and thrive?

Interesting that there was no communication between the mother GARBC church of the church plant and your church before the church started. Very sad……

I also was checking the demographics of Altoona. The population of Altoona is increasing at a significant rate. I am guessing that is why the church planters identified Altoona as an area where another church should be planted. Still, that is not a good reason for the lack of communication with your church.

Technically there is always enough lost people, but they really are not reaching any new people in any new way. The mother church is also known for pushing its agenda. but the specific scenario is not the purpose of what I am saying.

I believe that churches and organizations should choose to hold associational fellowship in tighter circles, often for reasons that you’ve shown with Berean and New City. I think what an association of churches that are in tight fellowship and agreement can do together is almost endless.

I feel that churches can work outside of this associational fellowship with other churches/organizations for certain specified purposes in which they agree in a loose pseudo fellowship that would help the purpose of those churches and associations in a way that can’t be found within their own fellowship. (although I would like to assign it a different term than fellowship as I said earlier to avoid confusion.)

I also think that there should be more forum and discussions that should be had among various assortments of Christians in order to help individuals better understand what they believe. This is not in any type of association, support, or justification of any of these groups convictions by any other group in the discussion. And is therefore not really a form of fellowship.
I believe and practice the classical historical definition of Militant Fundamentalism. It is the ACTIVE separation of of any church or Christian organization from any other liberal church or organization or any Christian church or organization that refuses to separate from a liberal church or organization. It is also an active caution toward pop culture and things of the world.

I also believe that any church or organization that expands its scope of separation further then these ideas is bordering on legalism and is unbiblical.

I also believe that every church or organization has the freedom and responsibility to covenant with the churches and organizations it bests deems would be a good stewardship of their resources, First within their tight close knit associational fellowship and then filling in the gaps of their needs outside of that fellowship.

In contrast I believe that due to the limit of resources, every church has the freedom and responsibility to not covenant with any churches or organizations it feels would not be a wise stewardship of its resources to work with. No church should be obligated to HAVE to covenant or work with any church in anyway as every church is independent. This choice does not have anything to do with separation.

I believe that those who call it such are bordering on legalism and are being unbiblical.
That being said I probably best fit the category the other Joel said was an “A” category, but it is obvious that his own personal biases reflect how he defines his categories, and I don’t fit that category well, but it is the best I fit into.
I hope that gives somewhat of an idea of what I’ve been trying to communicate.

In the same town another GARBC church was planted of a more contemporary stripe

There are 2 GARB churches in Altoona? The GARB directory indicates that there is only one.

So in other words you are in a city that has a need for two churches that are in the same association in the same place.

Umm… Grand Rapids/Kent County, Michigan, has the highest concentration of GARBC congregations anywhere in the USA.

Not the point…….

But 8 churches moved out of the central city due to white flight and 3 churches closed down, leaving one GARBC church (Berean) for its 17 central city neighborhoods. 32 other GARBC churches are located in the Suburbs of Grand Rapids, bedroom communities near Grand Rapids or in Grand Rapids barely in its city limits. If you had a giant map of Grand Rapids and its Suburbs with all of the GARBC churches, the churches look like a giant donut with a gaping hole in the middle.

Having lived in downtown GR (and delivered mail throughout the metro for a year and a half), I can easily picture what you are speaking of, Joel.

One of these times I’m back we’ll have to sit down and visit.

looking forward to it……