BJU's Steve Pettit on his meeting with John MacArthur

Just to put it out there - The full document of the resolutions of the FBFI is: https://fbfi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Complete-Resolutions_Websit…
The resolutions committee in 1985 was (At least one has gone to glory - I have very little experience with the rest):
James Singleton, Chairman
Charles Baker
Frank Bumpus
Marion Fast
Greg McLaughlin
The resolution reads:
“The Fundamental Baptist Fellowship emphasizes its opposition to New Evangelicalism and its effort to brand as legalist those who hold scriptural standards of separation. We are opposed to the recent New Evangelical emphasis away from confronting people with the gospel to a life-style or bridge type of evangelism. We do not believe any person who rejects the Biblical doctrine of separation is a true Biblicist; therefore, we reject John MacArthur, Jr., Charles Swindoll, and others of their like who are opposed to the fundamentalist position.”
They softened a bit between 85 and 95. The resolution of 95 reads:
“The FBF appreciates John MacArthur’s expositional ministry of the Bible, but believes that his trumpet would give a more certain sound if he separated himself from speaking in places such as Moody Bible Institute, which has given support to past Billy Graham crusades and puts its stamp of approval on an upcoming Luis Palau crusade, and at Southern Baptist meetings in which he is on the same platform as Charles Colson, whose leadership in the movement known as Evangelicals and Catholics Together represents a betrayal of the doctrine of justification by grace through faith alone. We differ with the evaluation made by James Stitzinger, faculty member at Master’s Seminary, in a recent book Rediscovering Pastoral Ministry, in which he portrays MacArthur as being in the tradition of a Charles Spurgeon in the Downgrade Controversy since in all article written in 1888 as to why he separated from the compromising London Baptist Association the “prince of preachers” contended that the only complete protest was separation. While contending for the truth MacArthur continues to associate with those who by their actions and associations aid those who dilute and destroy the truth. We believe that those who follow the MacArthur line of reasoning and practice will produce a second generation of New Evangelicals”
The committee included:
Rod Bell
Tim Jordan
John Vaughn
Dave Doran
Matt Olson
James Singleton, Chairman

One must remember that announcements made by the leadership or leader of the FBFI do not reflect the positions of the subscribers to their magazine (they don’t have members) or dictate to those voiceless subscribers what their individual positions must be. They may assume their hundreds of subscribers are supporters, but that would be only an assumption. To the spectator it would appear that the FBFI’s zeal for separation from so-called disobedient brethren has placed them in a position of insignificance to anyone but themselves. They seem not to realize that there are many historic fundamentalists who see no sense in fighting with and separating from good people with whom they will share heaven other than that are different. If Jesus says to someone, “I see you separated from John MacArthur. Well done thou good and faithful servant!” I’ll stand corrected and accept my loss of reward for not doing the same.

[CAWatson] We differ with the evaluation made by James Stitzinger, faculty member at Master’s Seminary, in a recent book Rediscovering Pastoral Ministry, in which he portrays MacArthur as being in the tradition of a Charles Spurgeon in the Downgrade Controversy since in all article written in 1888 as to why he separated from the compromising London Baptist Association the “prince of preachers” contended that the only complete protest was separation. While contending for the truth MacArthur continues to associate with those who by their actions and associations aid those who dilute and destroy the truth.

MacArthur was probably more in line with Spurgeon than this resolution suggests. When I studied the Downgrade Controversy, one of the things that flabbergasted me was Spurgeon’s strong written support for separation from the Baptist Union while maintaining fellowship with various men who did not separate from the Union. While Spurgeon himself took a strong stand there were things that he did that sort of took the teeth out of his actions — like not naming names and not separating from those who stayed in.

You look at these resolutions, and the people who wrote them, and it’s pretty stunning to see where we are now.

The resolution in 85 is now 35 years old and woefully out of date. Things have changed, also, since 95. John Mac has increasingly become more militant in his preaching and practices. Most in his circles would consider him a militant separatist by championing the truth and boldly condemning error. In my understanding of 2 Thess 3, I do not consider JMac a disobedient brother. On some issues we are disagreeing brothers. I am sure we would disagree on some important matters (important to me that is). Our church and school are very conservative on lifestyle and cultural issues. There are things he allows that I would not. Places he would go to speak that I would not. Nevertheless, his commentaries and books are very conservative and have helped many a pastor through the years, including myself. I am glad that the division over the “blood” controversy between BJU and JMac is over. I believe that Dr. Custer had wrongly assessed John’s position on that issue. John was simply fighting against the Roman Catholic Sacramentarian viewpoint on the blood of Jesus, nothing more and nothing less. BJU and the Masters have different histories and different orbits of influence/fellowship. The non-Lordship pastors and KJVO pastors generally don’t like him. Well, they don’t like me either. I have never been to the Masters College or Seminary, Grace Community, heard John speak in person, personally met him, or ever attended a Shepherd’s Conference. At the same time, he’s not the guy we need to be throwing stones at. Most who do live in glass churches.

Thank you, Mike. You have spoken wisely and helpfully.

[Mike Harding] In my understanding of 2 Thess 3, I do not consider JMac a disobedient brother.

He wasn’t a disobedient brother 35 years ago!

[CAWatson]

They softened a bit between 85 and 95. The resolution of 95 reads:

“The FBF appreciates John MacArthur’s expositional ministry of the Bible, but believes that his trumpet would give a more certain sound if he separated himself from speaking in places such as Moody Bible Institute, which has given support to past Billy Graham crusades and puts its stamp of approval on an upcoming Luis Palau crusade, and at Southern Baptist meetings in which he is on the same platform as Charles Colson, whose leadership in the movement known as Evangelicals and Catholics Together represents a betrayal of the doctrine of justification by grace through faith alone. We differ with the evaluation made by James Stitzinger, faculty member at Master’s Seminary, in a recent book Rediscovering Pastoral Ministry, in which he portrays MacArthur as being in the tradition of a Charles Spurgeon in the Downgrade Controversy since in all article written in 1888 as to why he separated from the compromising London Baptist Association the “prince of preachers” contended that the only complete protest was separation. While contending for the truth MacArthur continues to associate with those who by their actions and associations aid those who dilute and destroy the truth. We believe that those who follow the MacArthur line of reasoning and practice will produce a second generation of New Evangelicals”

The committee included:
Rod Bell
Tim Jordan
John Vaughn
Dave Doran
Matt Olson
James Singleton, Chairman

I suggest that Matt Olson is far less conservative today than John Mac

I remember the “Big Men” on this list.

The committee included:
Rod Bell
Tim Jordan
John Vaughn
Dave Doran
Matt Olson
James Singleton, Chairman

They were intimidating and I suspect if one had a dissenting opinion it would be better to keep it to himself.

….why not a statement that the previous statements are no longer operative? Also, a bit of thought on how secondary separation fits in here would be good. If I warned about someone ignoring or grossly violating the inerrancy of Scripture, and then removed that warning, I’d better have an indication that person had a huge indication of repentance—really that they came to Christ.

So this is where I’ve got some very significant issues with separation/secondary separation being called a “fundamental” issue, per Jim’s sometimes comments about “everythingism.”

Bert asked: why not a statement that the previous statements are no longer operative?

Because apologizing or amending or changing are not things that they do well.

[Ron Bean]

Bert asked: why not a statement that the previous statements are no longer operative?

Because apologizing or amending or changing are not things that they do well.

https://youtu.be/fbMKjLe-RFA

[Ron Bean]

Bert asked: why not a statement that the previous statements are no longer operative?

Because apologizing or amending or changing are not things that they do well.

You would note this statement that we have at the top of the page where our Resolutions/Position Statements are found.

Below are the positions (formerly called “resolutions”) of the FBFI. These positions are listed here for the purpose of edification, education and historical record. They are a record of the issues that were of importance to members of the FBFI at a given point in time. While many, maybe even most of these statements would be affirmed by the membership today, not all of them would or should. They are maintained here to provide an honest historical record of the FBFI both past and present

With respect to MacArthur currently, his talk is more conservative than its ever been, but while he condemns the charismatic notions of ongoing revelation (aka “prophecy” and “tongues”) I note that he had Bob Kauflin, Sovereign Grace charismaniac as one of his speakers last week at the Shepherd’s Conference. Kaufliin is on record claiming that he prophesies when writing music - God is speaking through him.

Consistency is a rare jewel.

BJU has changed. It will not change back. That’s a good thing. You can do nothing to stop it, unless you can conjure up a DeLorean and some plutonium.

Those who desire to do so may now continue the hand-wringing about JMac and seperation … I am profoundly grateful I am GARBC. This is all so foolish!

I do feel for my brothers and sisters who sincerely believe in an expression of the Christian life more in keeping with what BJU used to be. I wonder what universities are left that can provide the kind of environment these people are looking for, without going to KJVO institutions on the hard right?

I am asking sincerely.

[TylerR] I do feel for my brothers and sisters who sincerely believe in an expression of the Christian life more in keeping with what BJU used to be. I wonder what universities are left that can provide the kind of environment these people are looking for, without going to KJVO institutions on the hard right?