Why are Americans confused about Obama's religion?

I wonder if we can learn Obama’s real religious views and personal theology from this interview he did before he had to start saying more “politically correct” religious things when he began campaigning for President?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thedudeabides/obama-on-faith-the-exclusive…

I wonder if we can learn Obama’s real religious views and personal theology from this interview he did before he had to start saying more “politically correct” religious things when he began campaigning for President?

Note especially his definition of “sin.”

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thedudeabides/obama-on-faith-the-exclusive-…

Speaking for myself, there is no doubt in my mind that Obama believes in a different Christianity than I do. I think his theology has fatal problems. But that is not the point of the original question. The question was whether Obama is a Christian or Muslim and within the context of which one he claims as his religion (not whether he is truly born again). In other words, would we call a Catholic a Muslim because Catholicism has fatal theological errors? Of course not.

I still say that you would be hard pressed to prove that Obama’s “fruits” disprove his true Christianity. His theological beliefs? Quite possibly. But in general, he seems to be a committed family man, a man committed to helping the disadvantaged and a deeply principled man. I do not accept the current popular definition of a lie so I don’t consider him a liar. (IE, I don’t believe it is a lie to change your mind or misspeak or say something if you don’t have all the facts. I don’t believe Bush “lied” about WMD in Iraq for example.) And, I think that his platform does have a moral edge in SOME WAYS over the right.

And by the way, I say this as no fan of Obama. I have never voted democrat in my life. But I have not watched enough Fox News to believe that just because someone disagrees with me even on major issues, he is stupid and/or evil and hates America and I have never subscribed to the idea that right and left is the same as right and wrong.

[GregH]

josh p wrote:

GregH wrote:

Playing the devil’s advocate here, I would like for someone to really make a case that Obama’s “fruits” do not demonstrate Christianity. Yes, he believes in abortion; he clearly thinks (like most abortion advocates) that fetuses are not human lives and it is not an issue of murder. Is it completely unrealistic for a Christian to believe that? Yes he believes in gay marriage because he believes that the government not giving gay couples certain rights such as traditional couples enjoy is discrimination. Could a Christian possibly believe that? I know many that do…

Other than that, conservatives don’t like his fiscal policies or his foreign policy, etc. I get it. But it is not like Christ was a right-winger. Right and wrong is not the same as right and left.

Furthermore, Obama probably could make a case that he has the moral high ground in many areas such as what Joel mentions in regards to the poor. You could argue that the left does seem a bit more in line with the gospel than the right wing in regards to the treatment of the poor.

I am making no statement as to whether he is a true Christian or not. I am just saying that just because he is a liberal and instituted ObamaCare does not mean he isn’t a Christian or has “bad fruit.”

Greg, I don’t care if Obama is a Christian or not. I would like him to be for his sake and God’s glory but otherwise it doesn’t matter to me. That being said you said that Christ was not a “right winger”. You may be right but could you please explain how you came to that conclusion?

It is sort of obvious isn’t it? Look at how Jesus lived and operated and tell me what he had in common with today’s right-winger? Personal property rights? Defense? Fiscal policy?

Sounds like an argument from silence so no I would not say it’s obvious. Pretty sure Christ was not too concerned with politics.

[Greg Long]

GregH’s checklist as seen on this thread:

* David Barton … check
* Fox News … check
* Obama - bashing … (I can’t remember)

Somewhat confused. But if it is a zing at me, I will consider myself zinged (and will still sleep well tonight) :)

Just to clarify, when I claim that Obama is a liar, I am using Webster’s definition of claiming he is knowingly saying something he knows not to be true. While it is true that I’m not inside his head and knowing this absolutely, the argument I’d make is that (a) I can not believe he did not know these things were false, given his involvement and (b) when he is caught in an untruth, he does not make efforts to deal with that problem. Hence I infer that he is lying.

I am absolutely not using today’s definition of “he said something that is wrong so I immediately call him a liar” or “he said something I disagree with so I immediately called him a liar.” I am saying “he said something that was untrue, it is implausible that he did not know it was untrue, and he said it anyway and did nothing to fix the situation when it became abundantly clear his promise was false.”

Regarding his status as a family man, well, yes, he’s still married to his first wife, but there is something odd about how many vacations they take apart. I understand the need for a President to take a fair amount of trips as part of his job, and that his whole family cannot come along every time. I do not understand two and three week vacations apart. Something is very different there, and IMO it is not congruent with a healthy family life.

If you claim to be a Christian, and you believe there are many paths to salvation/righteousness, are you really a Christian?

[GregH]

But in general, he seems to be a committed family man, a man committed to helping the disadvantaged and a deeply principled man.

Wow. He is a man committed to using everyone else’s money to help the disadvantaged. He exhorts us to be our brother’s keeper, yet he doesn’t appear to be keen about helping his brother still mired in Kenya. Why and how is it that Jesus’ personal appeal to the Jews to minister aid to the poor can be interpreted as His directive for the government to do it for us in this dispensation on our behalf using our money? I’m reminded of the three basic questions to Biblical interpretation…Who said it? To whom was it said? What were the circumstances?

Deeply principled? Maybe, if hypocrisy is the new measure of principle. Stating over 20 times that he didn’t have the authority to use executive privilege to extend amnesty to illegals and then doing it doesn’t strike me as deeply principled.

[KD Merrill]

GregH wrote:

But in general, he seems to be a committed family man, a man committed to helping the disadvantaged and a deeply principled man.

Wow. He is a man committed to using everyone else’s money to help the disadvantaged. He exhorts us to be our brother’s keeper, yet he doesn’t appear to be keen about helping his brother still mired in Kenya. Why and how is it that Jesus’ personal appeal to the Jews to minister aid to the poor can be interpreted as His directive for the government to do it for us in this dispensation on our behalf using our money? I’m reminded of the three basic questions to Biblical interpretation…Who said it? To whom was it said? What were the circumstances?

Deeply principled? Maybe, if hypocrisy is the new measure of principle. Stating over 20 times that he didn’t have the authority to use executive privilege to extend amnesty to illegals and then doing it doesn’t strike me as deeply principled.

Ah yes, it 2015, it is impossible to believe that anyone could disagree with us on political matters and still be principled. Or honest. Or intelligent.

No, that is not what he did. What he did is make the claim that because Obama has a different view of welfare than he does, he can’t possibly be deeply principled.

Seriously Greg Long? You don’t get my point? If you want to disagree with Obama, be my guest but that does not mean he is not deeply principled. That is, in a word, just absurd. Is there anyone among you on the far right who actually has the maturity to admit that good men can disagree on political matters like welfare and Obama really might be a good man in spite of Obamacare, etc? A few decades ago, people could deal with that kind of complexity. What has changed?

[Greg Long]

Would you care to address the actual point he made about Obama saying 20 times (or however many it was) that Presidents should use the legislative process rather than just use executive action to create law vs. when he did just that with amnesty? Would you call that an act of abiding by one’s word?

No I would not. It is not my point. I don’t know what really went on there and all the nuance and legality involved. I suspect you don’t either.