This is one of those misguided evangelical approaches to abortion. He states, “but the direct and substantial aid to even expectant mothers persuades me that Romney’s plan could make a difference.” Why have Christians devolved into this model? We must save the moral decline of this nation, by seeking ways to overturn this decline through legislative approaches, or by seeking care and love to combat the moral decline. This is not a crisis center solution, this is not a legislative solution. This is a gospel problem. And we will not in our own power, solve this gospel problem. They cannot see and they cannot discern and understand. Christ wants the believer and the church to remain pure and holy and acceptable to Him. Not the world or America. I don’t see why churches struggle with this. My goal is to preach Christ, not convince people not to get an abortion. And whether Biden destroys America or not, is irrelevant. It is not my kingdom. The church will be preserved.
Someone asked me the other day, how I was handling the abortion situation under Biden. I said, “Great, I am not getting one”.
It’s more complicated than that. Should the Church walk away from public engagement in toto, because “we preach the Gospel?” Is it a distraction from the Church’s mission to do things to support your local Christian pregnancy center? Should Christians not do anything to support legislation that echoes, supports or even obliquely aids God’s own kingdom values?
Your position says some good things. Is it missing anything?
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
More or less what Tyler says. We engage politically for the same reason that Telemachus is said to have come to the Coliseum in Rome; to work to put an end to a horrific set of wrongs. When we do so, we work to persuade the unbelieving world of their sin.
In this case, there are layers of sin; you’ve got the obvious slaughter of the innocents, combined with the tacit endorsement of fornication supported by the same, and finally you’ve got layers of governmental corruption that supports the whole thing—keep in mind that when the average obstetrician earns north of a quarter million bucks a year plus benefits and facility and auxiliary personnel, there’s no way you pay all that just off the ~$500/abortion he’s charging times the average number of abortions per abortionist of 500 or less.
Be careful that we don’t sin in our opposition to these horrors, but let’s remember what we’re doing in stepping forward to help the innocents.
Is it a distraction from the Church’s mission to do things to support your local Christian pregnancy center?
I am not saying that the church should do nothing at all. But the amount and focus that the church puts into this is out of step in my opinion. There is no direction in the NT that our mission is to push for a secular government into a more moral position through the legislating the 10 Commandments or Scripture. Why is it such a massive focus of the evangelical world? Should we be helping those in need? Yes. And there is an element of that with things like crisis pregnancy centers. But we won’t solve the abortion crisis through this means. The kingdom of Heaven is the gospel and the church. We don’t save people by making them more moral. We don’t change their heart through the laws or crisis pregnancy centers. There hearts are changed through the conviction of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God. (which I know is not saying anything new on this site).
Prior to the election, people who followed David French told us that abortion is not an issue in this election because presidents don’t really have much influence on abortion policy. The anti-Trump crowd assured us that failing to vote for Trump would not likely result in increased abortions.
Now, David French tells us that just one of Biden’s executive orders will doubtless result in an increase of tens of thousands of abortions. Clearly those who supported Trump, not because they liked him, but because they were strongly opposed to abortion, were not wrong. Just as clearly, those who strongly oppose abortion as a matter of Christian conviction, who were convinced not to vote for Trump because the President doesn’t have much influence on abortion, were misled. Like Trump or dislike him, the fact remains that the Trump presidency was responsible for a reduction in abortions, both domestic and foreign, and the Biden presidency will be responsible for a sizable increase in abortions, both domestic and foreign.
It appears that anti-Trump derangement syndrome was real. People were blind to the obvious because of an emotional rejection of Trump as a person without regard for the consequences in the increased murder of children.
The kingdom of Heaven is the gospel and the church. We don’t save people by making them more moral. We don’t change their heart through the laws or crisis pregnancy centers. There hearts are changed through the conviction of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God. (which I know is not saying anything new on this site).
The kingdom of heaven is the reign of Christ on earth, not the gospel and the church, but that aside, this seems to partake of the notion that the only point of a Christian life is the gospel and the church. What about Christian living? What about faithful citizenship? I would suggest this is a very truncated view of Christian living or of any kind of living for that matter.
Discussion
NewThis is one of those
This is one of those misguided evangelical approaches to abortion. He states, “but the direct and substantial aid to even expectant mothers persuades me that Romney’s plan could make a difference.” Why have Christians devolved into this model? We must save the moral decline of this nation, by seeking ways to overturn this decline through legislative approaches, or by seeking care and love to combat the moral decline. This is not a crisis center solution, this is not a legislative solution. This is a gospel problem. And we will not in our own power, solve this gospel problem. They cannot see and they cannot discern and understand. Christ wants the believer and the church to remain pure and holy and acceptable to Him. Not the world or America. I don’t see why churches struggle with this. My goal is to preach Christ, not convince people not to get an abortion. And whether Biden destroys America or not, is irrelevant. It is not my kingdom. The church will be preserved.
Someone asked me the other day, how I was handling the abortion situation under Biden. I said, “Great, I am not getting one”.
NewMore complicated
It’s more complicated than that. Should the Church walk away from public engagement in toto, because “we preach the Gospel?” Is it a distraction from the Church’s mission to do things to support your local Christian pregnancy center? Should Christians not do anything to support legislation that echoes, supports or even obliquely aids God’s own kingdom values?
Your position says some good things. Is it missing anything?
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
NewOn public engagement
More or less what Tyler says. We engage politically for the same reason that Telemachus is said to have come to the Coliseum in Rome; to work to put an end to a horrific set of wrongs. When we do so, we work to persuade the unbelieving world of their sin.
In this case, there are layers of sin; you’ve got the obvious slaughter of the innocents, combined with the tacit endorsement of fornication supported by the same, and finally you’ve got layers of governmental corruption that supports the whole thing—keep in mind that when the average obstetrician earns north of a quarter million bucks a year plus benefits and facility and auxiliary personnel, there’s no way you pay all that just off the ~$500/abortion he’s charging times the average number of abortions per abortionist of 500 or less.
Be careful that we don’t sin in our opposition to these horrors, but let’s remember what we’re doing in stepping forward to help the innocents.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
NewTylerR wrote:
I am not saying that the church should do nothing at all. But the amount and focus that the church puts into this is out of step in my opinion. There is no direction in the NT that our mission is to push for a secular government into a more moral position through the legislating the 10 Commandments or Scripture. Why is it such a massive focus of the evangelical world? Should we be helping those in need? Yes. And there is an element of that with things like crisis pregnancy centers. But we won’t solve the abortion crisis through this means. The kingdom of Heaven is the gospel and the church. We don’t save people by making them more moral. We don’t change their heart through the laws or crisis pregnancy centers. There hearts are changed through the conviction of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God. (which I know is not saying anything new on this site).
NewWhat?
Prior to the election, people who followed David French told us that abortion is not an issue in this election because presidents don’t really have much influence on abortion policy. The anti-Trump crowd assured us that failing to vote for Trump would not likely result in increased abortions.
Now, David French tells us that just one of Biden’s executive orders will doubtless result in an increase of tens of thousands of abortions. Clearly those who supported Trump, not because they liked him, but because they were strongly opposed to abortion, were not wrong. Just as clearly, those who strongly oppose abortion as a matter of Christian conviction, who were convinced not to vote for Trump because the President doesn’t have much influence on abortion, were misled. Like Trump or dislike him, the fact remains that the Trump presidency was responsible for a reduction in abortions, both domestic and foreign, and the Biden presidency will be responsible for a sizable increase in abortions, both domestic and foreign.
It appears that anti-Trump derangement syndrome was real. People were blind to the obvious because of an emotional rejection of Trump as a person without regard for the consequences in the increased murder of children.
G. N. Barkman
NewThe kingdom of Heaven is the
The kingdom of heaven is the reign of Christ on earth, not the gospel and the church, but that aside, this seems to partake of the notion that the only point of a Christian life is the gospel and the church. What about Christian living? What about faithful citizenship? I would suggest this is a very truncated view of Christian living or of any kind of living for that matter.