Bob Jones University and the Bruins Foundation are hosting “An Evening with Tim Tebow”
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[WallyMorris]What if BJU (or Liberty University, for that matter) had the Pope speak at a sports fundraiser. Would that be OK since the forum is a school and not a church?
But isn’t this the problem? The Pope is a heretic. No one has claimed that Tim is a heretic, or that he is not delivering a gospel message. We are only claiming that since his separation is not the same as our separation, we need to separate. I think we also need to be careful with claiming to understand what BJU is doing, without really talking to the administration of the University. Maybe the University is trying to appeal to a broader evangelical group, but it is not what I have heard. My grandfather told me the time when many people were up in arms when the University started Unusual Films back in the 50’s. Many didn’t have TV’s and definitely didn’t believe it was right to mimic the corrupt and godless Hollywood, by creating something that “looked” like the world and appealed to those who wanted a white washed alternative to the world. The University has faced criticism over the years for changing and trying to appeal to the masses and that this is the final stroke of compromise. I can remember in the early 1990’s when I was going to the University and it decided to show a feature length Disney movie for the first time FMA. There were people in my hall praying that the University would “right” itself. They couldn’t believe the University would associate itself with the evil coming out of Disney. Maybe they are going down a road, but this is not the first time by a long shot that they have been accused of this, which in the end did not play out. Like I said, I am not particularly a fan of Tim Tebow, nor would I pay any money to see him. But there are good Christian men in the administration and on the board, and I think we need to be careful in what we claim in the absence of any real information. BTW, weren’t we as graduates admonished that we should close the school if it deviated from its mission?
[Bert Perry] I’m fine with a degree of it. Not to the degree of separating from John Piper and such, but definitely from T.D. Jakes.
I threw heaven in there to be a bit facetious. But isn’t this the issue. We are arguing about degrees of separation? Some on here would argue separating from Piper. But we aren’t even arguing that. We are arguing about separating from someone who doesn’t separate from someone else that we don’t agree with. If someone is a Christian and has never spoken heresy, why wouldn’t I be willing to have a meal with him? With that said, I do find a distinction between a University and a church. I would have no problem with a Christian politician speaking at a Christian University, but I wouldn’t have them speak in the pulpit of my church. I would have the mayor of the city, Christian or not, speak in the civics class about how city government runs. At Bob Jones there are plenty of textbooks that we were taught from that were from secular authors, and many of them even had notes in them and in some classes the information was disputed, but I would not teach a class at a Church from a secular author. I think we need to be careful that a University is a direct comparison to a local church.
MBU\MBBC has had a varsity athletic program since day one: football, basketball (men’s and women’s), soccer (m&w), baseball, wrestling, et al. Though, they did drop football a year or so ago. Their Army ROTC has taken trophies in the Army Ranger competition.
Hoping to shed more light than heat..
Well, first of all, I will clarify that my objection is PRIMARILY about the exaltation of celebrity culture. This is nothing more than loving the world, in my opinion. My concern is that it manifests a lack of holiness.
Secondarily, the intercollegiate sports lends itself to this culture, though it doesn’t have to. I realize Maranatha has had intercollegiate sports as does PCC and others. I don’t get the impression that those schools try to emulate the exaltation of sports as is found on so many secular campuses, as BJU appears to be doing. I could be just misinformed, maybe they do.
The fact that Jim saw fit to post this news item as a filing shows that something got his attention about it. Was he just trying to stir up comments here? Or is it because he is reacting to something that doesn’t seem to fit the BJU ethos we have known for so long? Or maybe it is something else, Jim can comment if he likes.
Third, I am of course concerned about the associations Tim Tebow is willing to make. Granted, this isn’t a church service, but it is being billed as “giving testimony to Jesus Christ.” There is some kind of religious cooperation going on here. I don’t think BJU would invite any of the individuals Tebow has appeared with, see my list above. Some of them they would of course absolutely abhor. But why invite a speaker to your platform for a quasi-religious service given the history and the historic stand BJU has taken. It raises questions about the commitment of BJU to its historic stand. I for one would like to see a public answer. (I’m not holding my breath.)
Finally, it occurred to me to check what kind of fees Tim Tebow, minister extraordinaire, charges for his appearances. Here are three sources:
http://www.athletespeakers.com/speaker/tim-tebow/
https://www.celebrityspeakersbureau.com/talent/tim-tebow/
https://www.christianspeakers360.com/speaker/tim-tebow.php
I assume that these sources are accurate. If they are, he charges between $50,000 to $100,000 a pop. I think it would be interesting to know what he is charging BJU for this appearance. The ticket prices have a varied range, I guess they average about $20 per. FMA seats 7,000 or so. That would be $140,000 if every seat is filled at an average of $20 each. Will there be other appeals for money at this event?
Is it right to use celebrity to separate Christians from their money for the purposes of an intercollegiate sports program?
I suppose those who attend will be happy to support the poverty stricken waif, Tim Tebow, and the aspiring athletes of BJU. But I know where I would spend my money, and it isn’t for those causes.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
[Don Johnson]The fact that Jim saw fit to post this news item as a filing shows that something got his attention about it. Was he just trying to stir up comments here? Or is it because he is reacting to something that doesn’t seem to fit the BJU ethos we have known for so long? Or maybe it is something else, Jim can comment if he likes.
I received an email from BJU public relations. They are very gracious and when I receive news items from them, I post.
The disparaging comments about Tebow’s character are disappointing. Disagreeing with his theology or associations is fine, but it can be done without having to use denigrating descriptions. He clearly is not a man without character as some here have described him. Take issue with BJU inviting him if you must, but there’s hardly a need to impugn Tebow.
[Don Johnson]Finally, it occurred to me to check what kind of fees Tim Tebow, minister extraordinaire, charges for his appearances.
I suppose those who attend will be happy to support the poverty stricken waif, Tim Tebow, and the aspiring athletes of BJU. But I know where I would spend my money, and it isn’t for those causes.
Wally Morris and AndyE, I think I will stick with my terms jealousy and hate.
[Don Johnson]Well, first of all, I will clarify that my objection is PRIMARILY about the exaltation of celebrity culture. This is nothing more than loving the world, in my opinion. My concern is that it manifests a lack of holiness.
I would agree with the objection to celebrity culture, but this is an odd one, since the only celebrity status Tim really has is the fact that he has had public platforms where he stood up for his Christian beliefs. He is not really a celebrity for his sports achievements. He has had some success here in the past, but not really that stellar. He isn’t even a celebrity in the secular world. His “celebrity” status is typically around his Christian beliefs. I equate it very similar to Dan Quayle and when he came to BJU to speak.
[Quote]
Secondarily, the intercollegiate sports lends itself to this culture, though it doesn’t have to. I realize Maranatha has had intercollegiate sports as does PCC and others. I don’t get the impression that those schools try to emulate the exaltation of sports as is found on so many secular campuses, as BJU appears to be doing. I could be just misinformed, maybe they do. [/Quote]
I would agree as well, although every Christian school that I went to had an intercollegiate sports team. BJU was the first Christian school, or any school for that matter, that didn’t have one.
[Quote]
Finally, it occurred to me to check what kind of fees Tim Tebow, minister extraordinaire, charges for his appearances. Here are three sources:
http://www.athletespeakers.com/speaker/tim-tebow/
https://www.celebrityspeakersbureau.com/talent/tim-tebow/
https://www.christianspeakers360.com/speaker/tim-tebow.php
I assume that these sources are accurate. If they are, he charges between $50,000 to $100,000 a pop. I think it would be interesting to know what he is charging BJU for this appearance. The ticket prices have a varied range, I guess they average about $20 per. FMA seats 7,000 or so. That would be $140,000 if every seat is filled at an average of $20 each. Will there be other appeals for money at this event?
These may be out of date. Jacksonville is one of my homes for part of the week, and I have some friends there that know Tim (although I do not), and I believe that all of his engagements go through his foundation, which donates the money. Probably a bigger concern might be where the money goes for whatever is collected.
Is it right to use celebrity to separate Christians from their money for the purposes of an intercollegiate sports program?
I suppose those who attend will be happy to support the poverty stricken waif, Tim Tebow, and the aspiring athletes of BJU. But I know where I would spend my money, and it isn’t for those causes.
it is pretty minimal money to listen to a speaker at the end of the day. I have paid more at BJU listening to other speakers, and that was many years ago. I paid $10 last year to listen to Steve Petit speak, although I did get some food with that :)
Yep, this is classic SI. Attacking/ridiculing the speaker is so common here when disagreements occur. But it ought not to be.
Let’s stick to the issues and their merits for discussion and not nitpick at each other. Doing so really has nothing to do with the content of the discussion anyhow. Nor is it helpful to building unity between Christian brothers and sisters. We can respectfully disagree without the discussion getting personal. Its also rarely a good idea to impugn others’ motives when we don’t really know what they are.
Per the website announcement they are priced from $10 to $30:
Ticket options:
Reserved Seating – $30
General Admission – $20
Student General Admission – $10
http://bruinsbooster.com/bruins-gala/
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How do those prices compare to other campus events?:
“Piano Battle” tickets run $23 to $43:
https://www.bju.edu/events/fine-arts/concert-opera-drama/piano-battle.php
“Lucia di Lammermoor” tickets are also $23 to $43:
https://www.bju.edu/events/fine-arts/concert-opera-drama/lucia.php
“Living Gallery” tickets run $12 to $14:
It looks to me like $10 to $30 is by no means out of line with other BJU ticketed events.
Yep, this is classic SI. Attacking/ridiculing the speaker is so common here when disagreements occur. But it ought not to be.
Let’s stick to the issues and their merits for discussion and not nitpick at each other.
No, we should let Don’s remarks about Tebow’s character and person, so helpfully quoted a post or two ago, stand as is. After all, he’s sticking to the merits of the issue by calling him the “minister extraordinaire” and “poverty stricken waif”.
After all, it’s not like P&D did the same for the faculty and staff at NIU; NIU even got very special blog posts of their own at Don’s hand. And it’s certainly not like so many people afforded NIU that luxury when they started having trouble back in 2012/2013 or so. We were too busy passing the good word along about NIU’s hopeless slide into Liberalism and especially their ‘compromise’, pre-Big Daddy Weave. I would think that someone who worked at NIU would remember some of this.
I think a cold glass of reality is helpful. Want the hyperlinks? I’ll be happy to provide them.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Labeling Don as hateful or jealous because he used verbiage you wouldn’t is neither wise nor helpful. Nor on topic.
About NIU, not sure what that has to do with the price of eggs in China, to be honest. You really want to rehash all that in this thread?
There’s some real angst among some of you in regard to NIU, the FBFI, Convergence, etc. Let’s keep banging the same stick. And it almost always bubbles to the surface, regardless of what the discussion is. Maybe time to forgive and let go? Disagree lovingly?
Keep going after Don, and you just keep proving my point. It always gets personal with some of you.
because he used verbiage you wouldn’t
It has nothing to do with terminology that I would use and everything to do with his violations of the comment policy that other members noted. It is hypocritical for you to apply that policy to apply against other members, or to say that we should follow Biblical principles, and then turn around and excuse Don’s behavior because you agree with him.
What Don did is also, by the way, a sin according to Ephesians 4:29 and other passages in the NT. A minister of the gospel should know that, and someone that worked at a Bible College also should.
“Unity” under the false pretense of excusing sin isn’t unity. It’s cowardice. You can keep excusing Don’s behavior, Adam, but I’m not.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Worth following on Twitter = BJU Public Relations
You’re judging motives, this time mine. Yeah, the only reason why I’m speaking up in Don’s defense is because we tend to agree with each other on this issue. How exactly do you know my heart? Not only that, but I’m now a hypocrite. Now you’re judging me and my motives. You really intend to do that? And this is helpful how?
I would not have expressed myself using Don’s wording, but I’m not Don, and that’s his choice. He’s entitled to his opinion, even with a touch of sarcasm. How did his comments violate the comment policy? If so, why didn’t Jim or another moderator step in? (Jim, you are here, right?) This is the first time I’ve read anyone saying anything in this discussion about a violation of the comment policy.
If Don, in your judgment, sinned, what steps are you supposed to take, Jay? I think you already know.
I’ve read far worse things at SI. Can’t say I’ve rarely if ever seen anyone raise concerns about the comment policy.
We could go on and on and …
My point is that we’re going after each other instead of sticking to the discussion. Anybody interested in getting back to what this thread’s about? Or shall we just keep smacking each other?
Discussion