Bob Jones University and the Bruins Foundation are hosting “An Evening with Tim Tebow”

Has anyone ever applied the qualifications of overseer to other guest speakers at BJU, especially those who addressed the entire student body?

Asking for a friend.

Fair enough, the context of course is the qualifications for an overseer. And also fair, a novice will only gain experience through practice.

But here is the thing, though the meeting is a fundraiser for the sports arm of the university, it is beyond dispute that the meeting is given a Christian overtone. The billing is “come hear Tim Tebow speak about how to have a Christian testimony in the world”. It is a Christian meeting, with a Christian speaker, speaking on a Christian topic (how to live out your testimony in the world) - What qualifies him to speak to this topic? The lip sync video? What credibility does he bring to this topic? The fact that he painted John 3.16 in his eye black?

Will the people who come to this meeting be encouraged to a life of holiness and godliness by the speech and example of Tim Tebow?

And, what does the invitation say about the culture and spiritual life of BJU? No doubt this was approved at the highest levels. Steve Pettit himself will speak. What should we take away from this? Do you think the decision instills confidence in the spiritual life and/or direction of BJU?

Wouldn’t we want to understand “not a novice” in terms of the expected 40 year lifespan of the ancients, and in light of Tebow’s very public walk of faith for 15 years? We can disagree on certain things he’s done—I certainly do—but I’m at a loss to see him as a novice in light of that!

I am amenable to a portion of what Don says; someone who is speaking on the way games can benefit those of faith ought to have at least a good portion of the qualifications for eldership; I do not see a sharp line between churches and schools which claim to serve the church in that regard. If BJU wishes to educate according to the Scriptures, there ought to be a critical mass of people qualified per 1 Timothy and Titus to teach them at BJU. Exactly what boundaries ought to be set, and exactly what portion of the qualifications for eldership ought to be met, I of course cheerfully discuss/debate here.

Regarding whether Tebow qualifies, the thing that gets me most is that he’s 30 and doesn’t seem to have permanent relationships, and he spends a fair amount of time pretty much just playing around. Perhaps these things are connected, and perhaps I’m unfair to him, but something perks on my radar when I see that. Maybe if I had $30 and a plane ticket to Greenville, I’d be persuaded otherwise.

Jay,

You have a legitimate point that Tim is not a pastor, nor is he being presented as a pastor in a church context. I fully agree with you. The fact that BJU is a Christian liberal arts University and that this event is an Athletic Fundraising Event should be given proper consideration. Again, fully agreed. My reference to 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1 pointed to the 18 qualities of “spiritual leadership” presented by Paul. For instance, in those passages the qualities not only apply to pastors, overseers, elders; they also apply to deacons (“servants”) and in principle to their spouses (“faithful in all things”). The one exception for the Christian “servants” is that they are not required to have the ability to teach biblical theology. Other than “apt to teach” the mere “servant” (diakonia) was expected to aspire to the spiritual qualities in those passages before he was given that responsibility. I believe those qualities are a good paradigm to use when selecting spiritual leaders in any Christian context. I have used these qualities as a general pattern to select Sunday School teachers, youth leaders, chapel speakers, staff members, Christian school teachers, banquet speakers, camp speakers, graduation speakers, etc. I have been doing this as a pastor with a sizable church and Christian School for over 40 years. I have some experience in these matters. I don’t use those qualities for those simply involved in secular endeavors whom I am not presenting as a Christian leader. Tim regularly speaks in churches, Christian schools, Christian colleges, Christian Concerts, and Christian events of many kinds. I think it is fair to say that Tim is a Christian leader in the Evangelical Community. Is it wrong to have basic Christian standards for those presented as Christian leaders, Christian speakers in a religious context, and Christian examples before thousands of young people? My answer would be “no”, nevertheless, since the person may not be a “pastor” or “evangelist” or “missionary” per se, some flexibility should be granted depending on the particular event and its context. It’s a judgment call in that regard. I know the heart of the administration at BJU. They are very good people—all of them. No one bats 1000 when making decisions. In my 40-year tenure as a youth pastor and senior pastor and school superintendent, I have made many mistakes. That’s why I said we should not read too much into this. My guess is that the decision-maker(s) did not know all that we know now regarding Tim or that because this is simply an Athletic Fundraiser, the guest is being presented for his athletic achievements in the context that he is a public Christian figure (and nothing more). That is most likely the intention of the decision maker(s). As I said before, I appreciate the gracious attitude on the part of many here toward BJU. At the same time, it is quite understandable, I think, that some have had a serious concern. Address it in a Christ-like fashion and move on.

Brother Harding,

First off, thank you for the post. I greatly appreciated it.

You said:

I believe those qualities are a good paradigm to use when selecting spiritual leaders in any Christian context. I have used these qualities as a general pattern to select Sunday School teachers, youth leaders, chapel speakers, staff members, Christian school teachers, banquet speakers, camp speakers, graduation speakers, etc. I have been doing this as a pastor with a sizable church and Christian School for over 40 years. I have some experience in these matters. I don’t use those qualities for those simply involved in secular endeavors whom I am not presenting as a Christian leader.

I agree with you here; I actually thought about this earlier today, although I haven’t been online to comment about it. I would argue that your responsibility as a pastor is far heavier than that of a university administrator. I do think, though, that the dynamic for both roles is far different from that of a Development Officer / Alumni Relations Coordinator - someone who is tasked with building an outreach to donors, prospects, and other supporters.

Tim regularly speaks in churches, Christian schools, Christian colleges, Christian Concerts, and Christian events of many kinds. I think it is fair to say that Tim is a Christian leader in the Evangelical Community. Is it wrong to have basic Christian standards for those presented as Christian leaders, Christian speakers in a religious context, and Christian examples before thousands of young people? My answer would be “no”, nevertheless, since the person may not be a “pastor” or “evangelist” or “missionary” per se, some flexibility should be granted depending on the particular event and its context. It’s a judgment call in that regard. I know the heart of the administration at BJU. They are very good people—all of them.

The ‘evangelical’ community, as we both know, is roughly 80 miles wide and one quarter-inch deep. It doesn’t surprise me that Tebow has shared the platform with people like Jakes, Piper, Sadie Robertson, etc. Maybe that’s because I put far less weight in the word ‘evangelical’ or ‘christian’ than I do in even the word ‘fundamentalist’, and I don’t put much faith in that word either. I expect any of these major ‘Christian’ events to be as broadly as ‘christian’ as possible, because there are seats to fill and merchandise to sell. Call me a cynic after 15+ years as a believer.

I agree with you that the administration of BJU are extremely good people. I agree with you that BJU takes theology very seriously. I agree with you that Tebow has hung out with people that I would recommend against. I do not think, however, that this is symptomatic of a larger issue or that this is compromise or even a significant issue. This is simply about bringing in a speaker for a fundraising event, which is something that BJU has done many times before with much less notable figures. Tebow is speaking about his role in sports, a field in which there are very few men who could speak. Would it be better if someone as theologically grounded as Dave Doran had played NFL / College football and had his experiences? Sure. But that’s not the world we live in.

You’ve opened your heart a little - let me open mine. My original point, way back at the beginning of this thread, was that this is a fundraiser. There is no more of an “association” between BJU and Tebow than it would be for me to be a guest speaker on using computers at the local library. There is no “compromise”, because Tebow isn’t even lecturing on Christianity - he’s speaking about his life and experiences in sports. That’s all this is.

If Don, or whoever, want to turn this into proof of compromise or evidence that BJU is falling into apostasy, they’ll eventually find that evidence regardless of what is said or done. But I think that is profoundly unwise, will contribute to the destruction of the school’s reputation and reach, and will ultimately hurt the cause of Christ…all of which we saw with NIU back in 2010-2013. So my recommendation is to treat this for what it is, and not go overboard by suddenly deciding to apply Biblical guidelines that shouldn’t apply here.

I will not deliberately attack BJU and destroy another solidly Christian institution unless and until there is more significant evidence than the fact that a guest speaker at one event was on a platform with other guest speakers that I vehemently disagree with over serious theological issues. We don’t have enough good schools as it is, and I’m speaking from the ‘convergent’ side of the FBFI divide, much less the FBFI one. I watched people tear Northland to pieces. I’m not interested in that and want to stop it from happening again if possible.

If Don wants to blog about this, or if John Vaughn wants to position the FBF against BJU, like he did with NIU and tear both constituencies in half, then that’s their business. But I flatly refuse to give an account to God for pitting brother against brother over this particular incident. I have had to go to war against other Christians in the past. I’ve lost friends over it. It’s a terrible, heart wrenching thing, and this one speech isn’t worth it. Save that for when we must draw swords over things that matter, things that affect doctrine, or things that affect the training of students. This? This is nothing. We need to keep our eye on the things that matter.

[Jay]

If Don, or whoever, want to turn this into proof of compromise or evidence that BJU is falling into apostasy, they’ll eventually find that evidence regardless of what is said or done.

That is NOT my position. The event was noted, see Original Post, I expressed my opposition. My point was not that it is evidence of BJU falling into apostasy, but that it was wrong to hold Tim Tebow up as an example of Christian virtue. I also object to the whole sports program on principle, but that is not what this thread is primarily about.

[Jay]

But I think that is profoundly unwise, will contribute to the destruction of the school’s reputation and reach, and will ultimately hurt the cause of Christ…all of which we saw with NIU back in 2010-2013. So my recommendation is to treat this for what it is, and not go overboard by suddenly deciding to apply Biblical guidelines that shouldn’t apply here.

I agree with this. 1. It IS profoundly unwise. 2. it WILL ultimately hurt the cause of Christ.

Your recommendation is fine. I am think I would disagree with you that 1 Tim 3 doesn’t apply, but regardless, there are plenty of other reasons why this is not a good move.

Bottom line, I disagree with the Christian groupie mentality that seems to say, “Nothing to see here, move on.” There is something wrong here, I’m glad you acknowledge that. Is it 5-alarm fire wrong? Maybe not. But I am stating my objection and giving reasons for it.

Don, Wally, Andy, et. al.

Thank you for your input. This is helpful to us. I do not view your concerns as an attack. You appreciate BJU as much as I do. By God’s grace we will avoid the mistakes made by other colleges and seminaries that led to their closure. None of us want to see the closure of any more of our schools. I support a number of good Christian Universities, Christian colleges, and seminaries. Even the demise of MBI et. al. is disconcerting. That article on the closing of Bible colleges should be read by every board member and faculty member. Jay, I also appreciate your heart. Sometimes there can become a feeding frenzy when calm minds can come to an understanding of what is really going on as opposed to a perception. Thanks. Hopefully, I can sign off on this thread.

Steve Green (Hobby Lobby) will be at the “Stand” conference at BJU on February 12th, to “challenge students in grades 7–12 with his personal story of standing for his convictions in the face of intense pressure. He’ll also discuss what kind of character employers are looking for and how teens can develop those character traits.” - http://stand.bju.edu/

From there, he’ll be off to speak at another conference in Dallas on February 14th & 15th:

https://c3conference.com/#about

https://c3conference.com/blog/article/special-announcement-steve-green-is-coming-to-c3-conference-2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MICkhV1osVs

[Note: looks like a lot of CCM at this conference.]

––––––––––––—

Tim Tebow has taken a lot of heat in this thread from those who object to whom he has appeared with at various conferences and other events in the past.

Turns out that Steve Green has previously appeared with Rick Warren and Michael W. Smith:

“Pastor Rick Warren is scheduled to preach at the open-to-the-public Worship Service that will take place Wednesday, February 24, 2016, during Proclaim 16, the NRB International Christian Media Convention, in Nashville, TN.

Leading the worship that evening will be award-winning singer and songwriter Michael W. Smith.

Steve Green, the Museum of the Bible’s Founder and Chairman of the Board, will also provide a special presentation on the 430,000 square-foot international museum dedicated to the impact, history, and narrative of the Bible. Currently under construction in Washington, DC, and scheduled to open in fall 2017, Museum of the Bible is the Platinum Sponsor of Proclaim 16.

“We are delighted to have Rick Warren, Michael W. Smith, and Steve Green join us for the Worship Service at Proclaim 16,” commented NRB President & CEO Dr. Jerry A. Johnson. “Churchgoers in and around the Nashville area should mark their calendars now and prepare to join us for this free-of-charge and highly anticipated event. It will be an extraordinary time!”

- http://nrb.org/news-room/press_center/proclaim-16-worship-service-to-feature-rick-warren-michael-w.-sm/ .

Steve Green has spoken at Liberty University : http://www.liberty.edu/news/index.cfm?PID=18495&MID=241785

A quick Google search turns up other events at which Steve Green has spoken that I expect those opposed to Tim Tebow speaking at BJU would take issue with.

–––––––––––––––––-

My question is this: Do those in this thread who object to Tim Tebow speaking at BJU also object to Steve Green speaking at BJU? Why or why not?

Personally, I was objecting to the use of celebrity so yes to a lesser degree I would not support that decision if I was somehow affiliated with BJU. That being said, appearing with TD Jakes is not the same as Rick Warren IMO. I wouldn’t care about the CCM angle.

One upcoming speaker on campus is an Episcopalian. Others have probably attended rock music concerts, R rated movies, imbibed alcohol, or associated in some form or another with religious leaders from far outside the walls of fundamentalism.

BTW, I hope to attend Tebow’s speech. I promise that I’ll confess if it causes me to want to hang with the Pope, start listening to and believing T. D. Jakes, lip sync rock songs, or pose shirtless for a magazine. (SMILE)

[Jim]

Ron Bean wrote:

… pose shirtless for a magazine.

Ron Bean: The Sharper Iron 2018 Pinup

That’ll drive the traffic …

AWAY

I almost hate to see this thread end. Now this might be interesting or scary. Will there be anything to see here? Do you two share the groupie mentality that Don mentioned as a parting shot? I wonder if it’s anything like the groupie FBF mentality in groupamentalism.