Despite Trump’s Indictments, Evangelicals Continue to Back His 2024 Run

This continues to support my view that most in the church will be deceived by the AntiChrist. Way too many are already willing to compare him to Jesus. And the idea that character means anything was out the window long time ago.

I don’t disagree with anything you just wrote. But even while they mention “pragmatic bargain” (without actually thinking about what they are saying), the analyses of “Trump support” continuously fail to consider the very large number of those voters who would prefer a better candidate but are unlikely to get one. (Is this really a blind spot, or are they just wanting to push a certain narrative? I expect that sort of dishonesty from the media in general, but seeing it from other Christians is disheartening to say the least.)

When voters’ better choice doesn’t get the nomination and they are faced with the choice between two candidates of bad character and one with even worse policies still feel they have to vote against even greater evil, many do, which in my mind, at least, is neither a big surprise, nor is it a big negative indicator of the state of Christian belief and principles of those who do so.

I hear lots of people decrying Trump’s “support” from evangelicals (and yes, there is unfortunately plenty of that) while completely refusing to consider that many of those voting “for” him are really NOT voting for him, they are voting against the other candidate. They haven’t given up on the politics of character at all. They would love to have that option. They simply realize that in a sinful world, it is often the case that they are not going to get what they really want, but still prefer to try to not get what they really *don’t* want, and they don’t believe that 100 votes for a third-party candidate of good character are actually meaningful.

My experiences, are, of course, anecdotal. But speaking with believers from churches running the gamut in my area from fundamental to broadly evangelical (and I live in a pretty blue area in a purple state), there are way more Christian voters who voted for Trump because the other choice was worse than because they really support the man.

Dave,

No offense, but that is plantation thinking. The Republican Party is reliant on Christians to think exactly like you do to continue to offer up terrible candidates without consequences.

If Christians chose to either not vote or vote 3rd party when the choice is between terrible and really terrible, you’d see a change in the candidates.

But we, like African Americans, continue to believe the plantation lie.

Set yourself free, Brother Take off the shackles.

My take is that while I don't like Trump's character--sleeping with porn "actresses", lying at every convenience, etc..--I also am watching the latest indictment getting shredded piece by piece. So I find myself in the weird position of praying for a good alternative to him in the primaries, while taking only one indictment--that for classified documents--seriously. And even that one is suspect because the FBI didn't do squat when it was Hilliary Clinton, Joe Biden, and a host of other....mostly Democrats.

And that leaves me at the point of realizing that my options are likely a guy who coordinated tens of millions in payments from foreign governments to his son, Trump, and a third party candidate. Asteroid impact is starting to look pretty good.

.

I find the “comparisons to Jesus” really frustrating.

It reminds me of when I was in 4th grade and someone would say, “I love spaghetti!” And someone would respond, “Oh! Why don’t you marry it!?!?”

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Trump was, I believe, a great president.

Yes, he’s also crass, mean, and has a history of sexual sin. So, no - I’m not going to marry him. I do not want him as my pastor.

———

We are at a point of deep corruption. Today Garland has tried to appoint a man as Special Counsel who just tried to sneak a dirty immunity deal through the court. Unbelievable.

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Here’s the point I want to make: I like but don’t love Trump. In some ways I wish the Republicans would nominate someone else. But this…

Despite Trump’s Indictments, Evangelicals Continue to Back His 2024 Run

… doesn’t properly reflect my thoughts. Right now, the CORRUPT democrat party and JOD is saying loud and clear, “NOT Trump! Anyone but Trump!” And THAT increases my support for Trump.

I can't think of one policy accomplishment that makes Trump a great president.

His only accomplishment, as far as I can see, was the appointment of reasonably good justices to the Supreme Court (and others to lower courts).

However, having so poisoned the discourse, if he becomes the Republican nominee, what will happen to that accomplishment? He is so toxic to a majority of Americans that whoever the Dems nominate will probably beat him. Add to that mix an aging Thomas and Alito. What will happen to the "conservative court" when they have to leave the bench?

Besides this one item, what other things did Trump accomplish that redound to greatness?

• Didn't deal with immigration (his big promise)
• Didn't drain the swamp (his other big promise)
• Didn't deal rationally with Covid (his big failure)

Some might say, "but the economy was great" ... because of him? What policy of his advanced the economy to any significant degree?

Really, outline his greatness. List the accomplishments. Just saying "he was great" doesn't make him so.

Trump was, I believe, a great president.

Yes, he’s also crass, mean, and has a history of sexual sin. So, no - I’m not going to marry him. I do not want him as my pastor.

Dan, I'm trying to understand why you and other Christians only view Trump's fitness for office based on his sexual sins? Since he's been in office, he has repeatedly tried to subvert our democracy, he has purposely mishandled national defense secrets, and he continues to, in the words of AG Bill Barr, "flip the bird" to the government.

Given this, Trump should be nowhere near the oval office.

I find it fascinating that many who worked directly for/with him while he was president have come out against him: his secretary of defense, his national security advisor, his attorney general, his secretary of state, his vice president, etc. Yet, Christians act like Trump is the best modern president second only to Ronald Reagan.

Come on, man!

Since he's been in office, he has repeatedly tried to subvert our democracy, he has purposely mishandled national defense secrets, and he continues to, in the words of AG Bill Barr, "flip the bird" to the government.

The first one:

I am open to hear what acts you see as attempts to subvert democracy. I’m guessing:

The election.

He has either tried to subvert our democracy or he has tried to rescue our democracy from those who tried to. Depends on the reality of whether there was substantial cheating in the 2020 election.

Over half of our country either doubts(me) or does not believe(27%) the election was properly conducted (or specifically that the next one will be).

If we don’t have free and fair elections, then we don’t have a democracy.

For years it was claimed that Trump colluded with the Russians to cheat in the 2016 election. The Steel dossier. For a long time many thought that was an example of Trump subverting democracy. And long videos of democrats asserting that the 2016 election was rigged are easily available.

I am open to hear what acts you see as attempts to subvert democracy. I’m guessing:

The election.

He has either tried to subvert our democracy or he has tried to rescue our democracy from those who tried to. Depends on the reality of whether there was substantial cheating in the 2020 election.

Over half of our country either doubts(me) or does not believe(27%) the election was properly conducted (or specifically that the next one will be).

If we don’t have free and fair elections, then we don’t have a democracy.

• His lies about the election even though he knew he lost (based on interviews with AG Barr, state election officials, attorneys [who are now subjects of disbarment], etc.)
• His interference with state elections and pressure on state officials to "find more votes" for him (possible third indictment coming).
• His fomenting of the Jan 6th insurrection at the capital (his second indictment).
• No significant fraud or election tampering has been found, even though he and his supporters continue to promote various conspiracy theories.

If there were "substantial cheating" during the 2020 election, no court, no election official, no attorney (many who claimed it are now being disbarred), or no media outlet (Fox got sued for its allegations, and settled for $$$) has proven it.

The only people clinging to this charade are conspiracy theorists and Trump supporters.

See my post from yesterday. What policies did he follow through on or push through Congress that made him great?

He talked a lot. He said some things people wanted to hear. Talk is cheap. What did he do?

some people state that Christians are only voting for him because he is better than the alternative. While that may be the case for some, it is not representative of the whole. White Christians evangelicals is the most consistent voting block that strongly supports Trump. Not as an alternative, but for him directly.

The only thing Trump accomplished (And I would argue it was more Mitch McConnell with the help of Trump) was to push conservative judges into open positions. Otherwise, the guy accomplished nothing.

While I don't like Biden at all, I find Trump extremely dangerous to the future of this country. His willingness to go as far as he did to subvert the election process should scare Republicans, Democrats and Libertarians. We have never had a point in time in this country where a presidents supporters set up gallows on the front lawn of the Capital Building, breached the building and sought his VP to hang on the front lawn. He is still pushing the idea that the election was stolen despite no evidence and rebuttals from his own teams.

Every moral fiber of this guy is corrupt. And yes Evangelicals have an option. There are a whole slate of Republican candidates, most significantly better than Trump in every possible way.

True Bible believing Christians will, for the most part, vote for another candidate in the Republican Primary. They are neither blind nor stupid. They know that Trump is an ungodly man. But if it comes down to Trump or Biden in the General Election, what are the options? 1) Refuse to vote, and by default help elect Biden. 2) Vote for Biden, and elect one who appears to be as corrupt as Trump, maybe more so, plus empower the political party that is most opposed to Biblical righteousness. 3) Vote for a third party candidate, and help elect Biden, or 4) Hold your nose and vote for Trump, and help put the party into power that is opposed to abortion, wokism, socialism, inflation, and a host of other issues that Biden and the Democrats support.

Folks, every election is a vote for one sinner over another sinner, but big picture politics will cause many thinking Christians to vote for those who will stop or retard the worst expressions of unrighteousness in America. Don't we wish we could always have the candidate we prefer? It seldom happens. Be wiser than the children of this world. Vote for the big picture. "Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness..."

But if it comes down to Trump or Biden in the General Election, what are the options? 1) Refuse to vote, and by default help elect Biden. 2) Vote for Biden, and elect one who appears to be as corrupt as Trump, maybe more so, plus empower the political party that is most opposed to Biblical righteousness. 3) Vote for a third party candidate, and help elect Biden, or 4) Hold your nose and vote for Trump, and help put the party into power that is opposed to abortion, wokism, socialism, inflation, and a host of other issues that Biden and the Democrats support.

If you want to "vote for the big picture," take the long-term view. Refuse to give your vote to the Republican party for a mess of pottage. Insist they offer up strong, viable candidates. Pretty much anyone other than Trump at this point.

The Republican party (like the democrat party) is all about power. If Christians refused to vote for terrible candidates just because they have an 'R' beside their name, the Republican party would lose "bigly." That would cause a change in the candidates they offer up and endorse.