Carl Trueman Leaves Westminster for Grove City College

I have been working my way through “The Wages of Spin”. I have found the book both challenging and enlightening but now that I know Trueman imbibes I guess I’ll have to trash it. Maybe C.S. Lewis too.

I plan to do the same thing, as soon as I finish reading Trueman’s book on grace alone … The burn pit awaits.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.

Trueman drives me a little bit crazy, because sometimes he is so eloquently right and sometimes so disappointingly (but still eloquently) wrong.

…. Somehow CSLewis, since someone mentioned him, never disturbs me much even when he’s wrong. I guess I understand better how his views cohere.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

[WallyMorris]

Trueman’s alcohol use is not “Christian Liberty”. His ancestry has nothing to do with his choice of beverage and cannot be used to justify such choices. I was under the impression that culture does not determine right and wrong. What disturbs me more is that some Christians will not criticize drinking scotch, brandy, or other strong alcoholic drinks.That lack of criticism shows how far the culture HAS influenced some people. Trueman’s alcohol use is relevant to his judgment and wisdom. Someone who shows such a poor use of judgment and wisdom should not be teaching in ANY Christian college. Some say they “don’t care” about his alcohol use? Wow - what a revealing statement.

“Wow - What a revealing statment.” I did say that Wally. And I’ll say it again. I don’t care that he drinks Scotch. My care capacity doesn’t have room for everyone’s personal choices. I understand that Carl is a brother in Christ, loves the Lord, and has been gifted to serve the Church. For that I rejoice. But Scotch? Not my thing. But no, I don’t care. He stands and falls before his Master. So Wow-Wow!

Did your sister attend Grove City College?

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.

Per Jim’s comment, here’s an article about Scotch. Not your thing? Not mine either, but let’s understand what it is and why people drink it. In a nutshell, it’s generally not something one gets drunk on—the tastes are too strong and the spirit too expensive, by and large. The ice or water put into the glass also helps the drinker smell and taste it without being overcome by the “burn” of the spirit.

To be honest, the big thing that says “Danger Will Robinson” to me is not liquor in general, or hard liquor in general, but rather cheap liquor with a premium on alcohol and a minimal emphasis on taste. Even that can be enjoyed responsibly, though.

Really, one thing Wally’s comment brings to mind is really a habit that is all to common—not just with Wally. We see that bad effects can come of something, then assume it WILL come of that thing, and then we assume that someone using that something (say Steve’s motorcycle or my mountain bike) is in sin because of it. We need to learn to be more nuanced, I think.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

More like because Hyles was a “Baptist” and Truman isn’t. Though, Dr. Cedarholm was a thoroughgoing teetotaler.

[Joeb]

I may be wrong about this so I stand to be corrected. In my readings I discovered JACK HYLES spoke at Maranatha during the day. So JACK HYLES is okay but TRUMAN would not be. Just because he drinks an occasional scotch. Wow WALLY me’s think you need to re-examine the issue.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

I have to admit that I, had I been asked, would not have believed they made wine in Kreglinger’s native Bayern. I may post a review on my blog.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

It was really a joke, but if it works for you, that’s ok, Bert … !

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.

A joke, but what if God is glorified in our enjoyment of the things He gives us? What if a bit more knowledge of the vineyard would help us understand the Scriptures better? Sure, Eugene Peterson, who wrote the foreword, doesn’t have the best reputation in fundagelical circles—some of his stands are mocked rightly in the Babylon Bee—but what if the author got it right?

Going back to the topic of Trueman, I am reminded of the fact that fundamentalists were supposed to separate on Gospel critical issues, not the mode of immersion or whether someone had a drink every once in a while. And when we don’t interact with others—say wild and crazy Presbyterians or Bayern Maedel who grew up in a vineyard—we get dangerously isolated and even inbred, theologically speaking. There is a real issue here to be dealt with.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

San Francisco, I’m not in all that tight with West Point on the Rock River. My take is the split occurred under Arno Q. Wenigar’s presidency. I am told that in the time period, Dr. Wenigar turned down Mr. Hyles off of a new “greyhound” bus for the school. So, that would be in the early 80s.

Also, keep in mind Dr. Cedarholm was an OG Fundamental Baptist. He was not a Baptist Fundamentalist.

[Joeb]

[Rob Fall]

More like because Hyles was a “Baptist” and Truman isn’t. Though, Dr. Cedarholm was a thoroughgoing teetotaler.

Joeb wrote:

I may be wrong about this so I stand to be corrected. In my readings I discovered JACK HYLES spoke at Maranatha during the day. So JACK HYLES is okay but TRUMAN would not be. Just because he drinks an occasional scotch. Wow WALLY me’s think you need to re-examine the issue.

So Rob Nope Hyles is acceptable to speak at Maranatha because he was a Baptist versus a Presbyterian That’s your answer versus Hyles was much more questionable in his personal walk with Christ and teachings compared to Truman taking and enjoying a shot of whiskey once in a while. Even though Hyles allegedly had a continuous adulterous relationship; covered for his son’s sexual sins; protected and stuck up for sex Predator Bus Driver; and gave a Soul winning award to a Hyles Pastor in jail for sodomising six 13/14 year old boys on a church camping trip Mes thinks Wally needs to reevaluate his position on Truman and drinking versus other heinous acts believers do ie being overweight; attacking and judging other believers over minutia etc

PS. When did Maranatha drop having Jack Hyles speaking yearly at a conference? You know how long did they look the other way while the Elephant was in the room versus the occasional shot drinking Pastor they’d kick to the curb in a moments notice.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

Please. Maranatha may be a good school for what it does, but with an acceptance rate of 75.9%, it is NOT the United States Military Academy., which accepts only 10% of applicants. Please, let’s stop comparing our schools for the people with highly selective schools. This is especially the case when one considers that when BJU and others started comparing themselves and designing themselves after USMA, the job of a USMA graduate was to motivate people who were drafted to fight a war through whatever means necessary—most of whom really, really, really didn’t want to be there. That’s a really, really, really bad distortion of what a pastor or full time Christian worker ought to be doing!

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

I’ve also called MBU formerly MBBC, the Mary-Martha School of Missions and Matrimony. When I was at MBBC (77-81) the school’s focus was training leaders for the local church. It is a bit of tongue in cheek humor. Much like referring to BJU as the Citadel, on Wade Hampton. Then, I attended MBBC on the GI Bill after four years in the Coast Guard. So, I had little to no problems with dress code or haircuts.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..