Interpreting Trump and the Never or Anti Trumpers

I once had a very vulgar manager:

  • I didn’t choose him … assigned to him
  • He was very vulgar in small group settings. Eg:
    • “I could just bang her …”
    • “You see the t*ts on her …”
    • Plus the standard vulgarities
  • When in other settings he could be very professional. Plus he was smart and experienced
  • He was very good to me (double promoted during my time with him)
  • Along the way I was known to some as “[his name] ‘s boy”
  • After he was let go (for reasons not related to his crudities), the wind was out of my sails for a while
  • [later I had another mentor who promoted me. After a reorg and 2 mergers my career languished for the final 5 years. Good money and the same title … but sidetracked]

As an aside …. I only had one manager in all my time whom I would characterize as vulgar. My last manager was a lesbo - she was the worst manager of all! (I had a male homosexual manager for a while - he was 2nd worst)

Trump is the vulgar executive (in my view)

Joel, two reputed Republicans (Tom Cotton, a very good guy, is one) in the meeting either outright lied or have said they do not recall President Trump making those specific comments in the meeting. Sen. Durbin, a Democrat who is well known for twisting facts on occasion, is the one saying the president said these words. And the president has denied doing so. So I don’t think anybody, except the liberal media (of course), can make any claim to know what the president said in the meeting unless he or she was there. Trump has said he didn’t use those words, and since this has happened before, I agree with him that future meetings should be recorded so the truth can be known. Certain Democrats and of course the media are not beyond outright lying about details to fit their agenda of smearing him. Now I would not be surprised if Trump said something like that, but the truth is that we don’t know for sure what he said. And we really have no reason to think that he did this…unless we’d rather believe people at CNN, at the Washington Post (who have been guilty of untruths at times), and this Democrat, who has a reputation for bending the truth as well.

Related: http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/12/politics/senators-trump-comment-tom-cotto…

The way you know if Trump is lying is if his lips are moving. Yes he is lying here. Yes, the two Republicans are lying to cover him though they chose their words carefully to try to cover themselves (“I don’t recall” is a copout and an attempt to avoid lying but I call it a lie.) No, Durbin is not lying.

Democrats are not bigger liars than Republicans. Nor is the media in the business of lying. Yes I believe CNN and the WP over Trump. Yes, I believe Democrats over Trump. With his track record there is simply no reason to believe that he is not lying here, and I cannot imagine anyone thinking otherwise unless they drink an awful lot of Trump Koolaid.

Regardless, the focus should not be on the word he used. We are not in grade school. The problem with what he said is that it belies his racist sentiments.

[Adam Blumer]

Joel, two reputed Republicans (Tom Cotton, a very good guy, is one) in the meeting either outright lied or have said they do not recall President Trump making those specific comments in the meeting. Sen. Durbin, a Democrat who is well known for twisting facts on occasion, is the one saying the president said these words. And the president has denied doing so. So I don’t think anybody, except the liberal media (of course), can make any claim to know what the president said in the meeting unless he or she was there. Trump has said he didn’t use those words, and since this has happened before, I agree with him that future meetings should be recorded so the truth can be known. Certain Democrats and of course the media are not beyond outright lying about details to fit their agenda of smearing him. Now I would not be surprised if Trump said something like that, but the truth is that we don’t know for sure what he said. And we really have no reason to think that he did this…unless we’d rather believe people at CNN, at the Washington Post (who have been guilty of untruths at times), and this Democrat, who has a reputation for bending the truth as well.

Related: http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/12/politics/senators-trump-comment-tom-cotton…

Republican Lindsey Graham (who was sitting right next to Trump) allegedly said that what is being reported by the press is basically is “basically accurate.” https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/lindsey-graham-i-said-my-piece-… According to Durban, Graham called Trump out for saying this as soon as Trump said it. Graham has came out and said that he appreciated Durban’s statements. Yes there is a chance that liberals such as Durban and the Washington Post lied, but Trump’s pathological lying history is just as bad or even worse than the mainstream media. The difference is I have seen the MSM actually post corrections to different stories that weren’t true about Trump. When has Trump said something not true, but then corrected himself? Rarely does it happen. In fact, when the video came out about Trump where he bragged about grabbing women’s body parts, he made it a point to apologize to the nation for his comments. He knew that he might lose the evangelical vote. But now he has stated that the video was fake news. He knows his base (including fundamentalist and evangelicals) refuse to show any discernment and will back him no matter what he does.

When I continually see that Christian conservatives who are so quick to believe Trump and other conservatives but are so quick to judge the mainstream media, liberals, and progressives as liars, I wonder if we really believe that everyone has the sin nature? Because we are functionally acting as if the conservatives are somehow immune to the culture of deceit and misuse of power that pollutes everyone of us.

If this was Obama and two Democrats said he didn’t make those remarks and two Republicans said he did, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation because the MSM wouldn’t have made it a lead story for two or three straight days. It’s realistically a draw. Two say Trump made the comments; two say he didn’t.

Investigate Tom Cotton. I challenge you. He doesn’t lie and is probably one of the strongest conservatives watching our back. If he isn’t aware that those comments were said, I would believe him. Durban and Trump both have problems with the truth. I wouldn’t say that about Cotton. As for Lindsay Graham, um, he’s got a lot to gain to side with Durban (and has been a bit slimy in the past), so again…we have a draw. And NOBODY except the guys in the meeting can testify to what was said. So with the testimonies split, nobody really knows. If this was a legal trial, the jury would have a tough time. But who needs a jury when some folks have all knowledge (even though they don’t)?

I’m not a Trump Koolaid drinker. The man is seriously flawed, but he has been doing some very good things. I just hate to see injustice in this situation. I don’t have all knowledge, and that’s my point. I hope they do record the meetings from now on to remove all doubt

GregH, wow. Seriously? Not sure we even live on the same planet, but I’ll check. God bless you.

[Adam Blumer]

GregH, wow. Seriously? Not sure we even live on the same planet, but I’ll check. God bless you.

I am reasonably sure that we you are right. We are not even on the same planet. I would say that about most of evangelicalism. Your post gave away your bias that Democrats are less honest than Republicans (absurd) and that the WaPo and CNN are liars (also absurd). Of course CNN does not get every story right but that does not make them liars. If they are liars, they can’t be in the business they are in.
On the flip side we have Trump who lies every time he opens his mouth and those lies are easy to prove (I believe there are hundreds of easily proven lies in his first year). We also have Perdue, a disgrace from my home state who is determined to defend Trump at all costs and in this case is parsing words to (as usual) try to defend him. I have written Perdue multiple times about his disgusting behavior. I don’t know Cotton but I find his words interesting. He “can’t recall”… Whatever…

Yes, I will trust Durbin over Perdue and anyone over Trump. Yes, I will take CNN over FoxNews which if you watch online is starting to look like some kind of nasty cross between David Cloud and the National Enquirer.

Is it more obscene that President Trump allegedly referred to some (unnamed) countries in a vulgar way, or the foreign policy over the past 50 years that’s funded the dictators of those places, helping to make President Trump’s comment not only vulgar, but arguably factual?

The latter is far more obscene in my view. Sorry, I’ve been in a couple of countries that might charitably be described in that way (East Germany for starters), and the foreign policy on both sides of the aisle that leads to this is far more obscene than any Anglo-Saxon word.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

[Bert Perry]

Is it more obscene that President Trump allegedly referred to some (unnamed) countries in a vulgar way, or the foreign policy over the past 50 years that’s funded the dictators of those places, helping to make President Trump’s comment not only vulgar, but arguably factual?

The latter is far more obscene in my view. Sorry, I’ve been in a couple of countries that might charitably be described in that way (East Germany for starters), and the foreign policy on both sides of the aisle that leads to this is far more obscene than any Anglo-Saxon word.

It has nothing to do with the actual word he used. That is a smokescreen. It is rather about the fact that the tenor of his speech tells a lot of about how he views people of color. It is also about the fact that he is lying and it is about the fact that his defenders continue to defend him no matter how indefensible, demonstrating their moral depravity.

Greg. with all due respect, the witnesses are divided as to whether the statement was actually made, and whether it was made in such a way that could even be construed to be racist in intent.

Plus, if you want somebody who hates people of color, can we talk about a full on supporter of an organization that kills over 100,000 black babies annually? Can we talk about a guy who prevented urban police from putting urban criminals in jail, costing the lives of yet more black people? Can we talk about a guy who didn’t take the threat posed by MS-13 seriously, costing the lives of hundreds of hispanics (and others caught in the crossfire)?

Can we talk about the guy whose inaction allowed ISIS to massacre thousands of brown-skinned Syrians, allowed the Taliban to reconquer most of Afghanistan, etc..?

I guess we can’t. Gotta get all worked up about one side’s interpretation of an Anglo-Saxon word, because obviously words, not actions, are what matters here, right?

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Sen. Lindsey Graham did not deny Friday that President Donald Trump called certain nations “s–hole” countries, adding that he “said [his] piece” in response to the president’s “comments” at a meeting with lawmakers.

The South Carolina Republican did not rebut an account from Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., of a Thursday meeting on bipartisan immigration legislation that both attended. On Friday, Durbin said that Trump “repeatedly” said “hate-filled things” at the meeting and called African nations “s–hole” countries.

Durbin added that Graham spoke up in response to Trump’s comments and said it took courage to do so.

From Aaron’s article. It seems to me that if Dick Durban reported it, and Lindsay Graham rebuked Trump somehow, then something off-color (at a minimum) was said. Having been aware of Donald Trump since I was a kid and he was a gambling mogul in Atlantic City, it would fit right in with what I know of his character.

I am increasingly sick to death and dismayed by all the constant back and forth between ‘sides’ over whose fault it is. I don’t care if it’s the media, or the GOP or the Democrats or Little Bo Peep. I absolutely despise the way it’s tearing Christians apart. I hate the way it puts Christians at each others’ throats over temporary politics for a kingdom that isn’t going to last anyway.

We can spend massive amounts of time, as believers, by demonizing the liberals / progressives / Democrats / Sith Lords, or we can be the kind of people that God calls us to be, admit when ‘our side’ screws up, and move on. But it’s so much more interesting to throw rotten eggs and stinky garbage back in at our enemies than it is to live the kinds of quiet and peacable lives that we are called to do in 1 Timothy 2:

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people—for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing.

Brothers, do that. Don’t get sucked into the garbage compactor of angry tit for tat and disputing every possible fact that might help ‘their’ side in the endless blame-gaming. Be the Christian God wants you to be.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

[Bert Perry]

Greg. with all due respect, the witnesses are divided as to whether the statement was actually made, and whether it was made in such a way that could even be construed to be racist in intent.

Plus, if you want somebody who hates people of color, can we talk about a full on supporter of an organization that kills over 100,000 black babies annually? Can we talk about a guy who prevented urban police from putting urban criminals in jail, costing the lives of yet more black people? Can we talk about a guy who didn’t take the threat posed by MS-13 seriously, costing the lives of hundreds of hispanics (and others caught in the crossfire)?

Can we talk about the guy whose inaction allowed ISIS to massacre thousands of brown-skinned Syrians, allowed the Taliban to reconquer most of Afghanistan, etc..?

I guess we can’t. Gotta get all worked up about one side’s interpretation of an Anglo-Saxon word, because obviously words, not actions, are what matters here, right?

Nope, not going to make this Obama. That is absurd. I am talking about the current occupant of the White House: his lying, his racism, his morality. And the morality of those that refuse to condemn him..

By the way, agree or disagree with Obama, he is an honorable man and represented the US well. If given a choice, I would take him any day over what we have now.

Anglo-saxon word: big deal to you. Hundreds of thousands dead, meh.

Count me pretty glad not to subscribe to that kind of moral logic.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

You claim to be some kind of logic expert Bert. Perhaps you should look up strawman fallacy. I specifically said a few few posts ago it was not about the word. And no, you won’t admit you are wrong—you never do.

Adam,

Investigate Tom Cotton. I challenge you. He doesn’t lie and is probably one of the strongest conservatives watching our back.

I took your advise and checked out Tom Cotton. What I found out is that he lies alot just like every other politician. He is definitely not the honest politician that you are making him out to be. For instance, when running against his democratic opponent, Mark Pryor, for senate, he stated that Pryor “continues to insist that the Affordable Care Act has been an amazing success.” In 2013, Pryor did say that the ACA was an “amazing success,” for a particular hospital, but several times after corrected himself by saying that it needed mending, and stating that he was only talking about one hospital. Or how about the many lies he told about Obama? He stated that Obama hijacked the farm bill and turned it into the food stamps bill. Food stamps has always been a vital part of the Farm bill since the Nixon administration going back to 1973. Again, someone who is willing to lie about the otherside to further their agenda. He also lied about the Dream Act saying that “it will be the single biggest amnesty in the history of the United States, even bigger than the 1986 amnesty.” In 1986, 2.7 illegal immigrants were given amnesty, whereas only 1.5 million immigrants are eligible with the Dream act. Cotton is calculating another 1.8 million stating that they would, in turn sponsor a parent who is in the country illegally. However, Cotton knows good and well that there has been legislation passed 20 years ago that made sponsoring a parent illegal. Do you want more illustrations of Tom Cotton Lying? There are more.

By the way, I don’t see conservatives or liberals, or libertarians being on “my side” when it comes to politics. As a disclosure, if you were to pigeonhole me politically, I would be a pro-life libertarian who has often voted Republican (not this election). Much of my reasoning comes down to my belief about the doctrine of sin. That whoever is in power, they are just as susceptible to lying, deception, and misuse of power as those who are across the aisle because of the sin nature that all of us possess. To demonize the other without seeing the possibility of demons among themselves, puts them at risk of functionally watering down the doctrine of sin. You may not be naive about Trump, but you might be about Tom Cotton. He has every reason to lie for Trump because he is considered the conservative most likely to succeed Trump, but without the sophomoric rants. Trump has already shown that he will use bully-tactics to keep the Republicans in line because he knows that much of base aren’t as concerned about values and civility, but they mostly care about winning, staying in power, and draining the swamp. Even establishment Republicans like Graham are afraid of him. By the way, I have called out several of my Christian friends that vote democratic that they are compromising the doctrine of sin when they believe that only conservatives/Republicans are more capable of lying, deception, abuse of power, and etc…..

Ironically, Trump-supporting Christian evangelicals are the ones who could curb Trump’s antics because their voice matters to him. Do you remember how quickly he was to apologize about his video where he bragged about his sexual antics? Several of his Trump-supporting evangelicals were beginning to distance themselves from him and suddenly Trump came across quite contrite. Even his Twitter rants got better. But when it blew over, he went right back to his old self. If Trump-supporting evangelicals don’t want to be rightly accused of entering into a faustian bargain in order to gain power and influence as they try to drain the swamp, they have to stop overlooking and justifying Trump’s lack of character and call him out when he sins. They need to stop justifying his unholy “combat-tactics.”

In the meantime, I will not hold my breath that Trump-supporting Christians will actually hold him accountable. But I will continue to pray for Trump and his administration and I will also pray for his supporters as well.