Family Research Council Sides With Conservatives Against Trump in Healthcare Battle

I’d have a lot more respect for FRC if Tony Perkins had more aggressively fought the nomination of Trump back in 2015 and 2016, rather than joining the “we need somebody to overturn the political class (even if that someone is an immoral egotistical idiot biblically-defined fool)” crowd.

Glad to see they are at least willing to push back a little though.

One that comes to mind for me is that self-paid healthcare is taxed differently than employer-paid. Maybe time to fix that, simplify the tax code, and remove a big advantage for corporations over small business?

I made a sincere effort to refer to President Obama as President Obama. I don’t appreciate people, especially Christians, calling President Trump an “idiot”.

As for FRC and the Tony Perkins, he was a solid supporter of Ted Cruz. It wasn’t until Cruz stepped aside that Perkins turned to Trump. It was Trump or Hillary…

[Joeb]

If the Republicans blow this it’s going to really hurt them. Remember the MI Tea Party Governor and his appointees running the Flint MI water supply.

Yeah they did it on the cheap and lead poisoned thousands of minority children. Lead poisoning can’t be corrected. Plus they lied about it. Yeah I really respect those people.

Just like the two MI Tea Party State Reps who were both Believers. They had an adulteress relationship and used their offices to cover it up. When found out they refused to resign because get this THEY WANTED TO BE AROUND TO VOTE FOR FAMILY FREINDLY LEGISLATION. Real Christian of them. Most likely they were connected to the FRC too. Also anyone who would associate with the Duggers and Gothard which the FRC did I find very questionable.

If they do this on the cheap as the Gothardite Freedoms Cacus wants to it will back fire. Paul Rayan’s plan at least is humane. You also have that Tea Party idiot Congressmen from Kansas going on the record saying the poor don’t need health insurance because they eat crap don’t take care of themselves and would not go to to the Dr. anyway ie it’s a waste of money. Should we support this because the Gothardite Freedom Cacus does. Certainly borders on class discrimination and racism to me.

Note: I’m not against all Republicans just the ones who are involved with the Tea Party and the Christian Right. Republican’s like Paul Ryan and Pence I can live with. To many of these Christian Right Tea Party types have proven themselves over and over again to be idiots and lack compassion. That’s why I think Ryan’s plan is the best I have seen even if the idiots call it Obamacare Lite. At least he is showing compassion in his presentation and fellows you can guarantee I’ll be thrown in with this with my healthcare.

My only disagreement with this is that MI Governor Snyder being linked as a Tea Party conservative. The tea party conservatives in Michigan couldn’t stand Snyder because he is more open to immigration and immigration reform.

JoeB, you are right that it’s not the government’s job to promote the Gospel of Christ. I assume you also agree that it’s not the government’s job to extend benevolence. That’s the job of families, communities, and churches, not government.

FYI, FWIW, the Flint Water Scandal was a good deal more complex than the MI Republicans doing it on the cheap. Probably not fair to include it in this.

Ugly reality here is that while the EPA and the state of Michigan dropped the ball, no one was holding a gun to the heads of the Flint Water Department telling them not to do a basic pH test or lead test in water out of the faucet. No one knew better than the city that they had a lot of lead pipe out there, and no one knew better than the city why they went to river water instead of City of Detroit—more or less to get a few bucks to help bail out their pension system. No one knew better than the City of Flint that General Motors had stopped using their water because it was corroding their machined parts—that should have been a heads-up right there. Blame goes at least 80% to the City of Flint Water Department. They had all the data and did nothing—or rather did worse than nothing.

Regarding Mark’s comment, I am personally torn on the question of whether we ought to refer to politicians with words that correspond to their actions. Yes, Romans 13, but at some point, doesn’t “Nero’s” behavior become bad enough that we are free to refer to him as a guy who sets our brothers and sisters on fire at garden parties for his amusement? (real example according to tradition at least) Perhaps we ought to be more specific than merely saying “idiot”, but at the same time, I don’t know that one’s position as a ruler set in place by God insulates a man from criticism.

Flint controlled its own water —the EPA and state environmental board did get sign off, and thus do get some blame, but their role was to check the plan coming from the city. No debate that they missed some obvious points in the check-off, and no argument that we fundagelicals, myself included, screw things up royally at times, but simultaneously no need to overstate it. :^)

Joe, I don’t know if that was all addressed to me or the other Larry here. But I don’t know what any of that means. I have no idea what the Gothardite Freedom Caucus is or what they stand for. I would have greatly preferred Cruz. Probably not a good idea to rebuke your wife’s friend that way, but we should all be able to agree that the ACA is broken and was broken from the start.

But back to Flint, which was my only point, again it is much more complex. The EPA, the MDEQ, and the Flint Water had responsibilities and all failed as did the city government who, for decades, had failed to live within their means. The FM law in Michigan was tailored to cities who could not manage themselves even with state help. It was a last resort. Flint had long been at fault for dysfunction which brought on the state management. The DWSD played a role in it. Perhaps the smallest role, at least as far as an active role, was the governor himself. I don’t believe the people running the Flint Water Department were governor appointed. In any case, it is much more complex than you seem to recognize.

I don’t know about any of that and I am not sure why you directed that at me. And it’s not logically sound. But whatever …

Thanks joeb for clearing all of that up!

I have attended many Republican meetings, and even more than one Tea Party event. NOT ONCE did I ever hear about Gothard, the Duggars, or the “mark of Kane” as you wrote it.

Thanks for making it clear what the real motivation for limited government in America is.

Hail Gothard!

Appreciated Mark’s lighthearted comment greatly; I too have been “out of the loop”, but it is worth noting that Gothardism creeps into place you’d never expect it. IBLP had a huge unknowing following among homeschoolers via the Duggars and Vision Forum, for example, and the close interfamilial relationships among homeschoolers in particular and fundagelicals in general spread Gothard’s ideas far beyond what IBLP could have done.

That said, “politics makes strange bedfellows,” and you can look and find some pretty damning connections just about anywhere. For example, Obama’s connections. We need to be careful to distinguish between who is really calling the shots (it’s not always obvious to be sure), and mere guilt by association fallacies.

I’d never heard of Gothard until somebody mentioned him on SI a few years ago. So … there.

[TylerR]

I’d never heard of Gothard until somebody mentioned him on SI a few years ago. So … there.

Here’s an assessment of Gothard’s teachings from 1984

Still holds true today - misuse of the OT / teaching personal views (some were good & moral) as authoritative

How it “worked”:

• A lot of very good stuff about the home & family
• “Helped” many teens submit to parents

The material is very slick and professionally done

I would liken it to a pervasive / invasive weed used as groundcover - think of Kudzu, the weed that ate the South

When I went to my 1st pastorate in New Jersey, GARBC churches routinely promoted Gothard’s Institute in Basic Youth Conflict:

Interesting quote from above: “His conservative teachings encourage Bible memorization, large families, homeschooling, aversion to debt, respect for authority, conservative dress”

I suggest that all in the above sentence are positive and “good”.

Gothard also had 1 day pastor’s conferences that were either free of very low cost. These were very popular.

One (there were many) weird views: ” He has warned that some toys such as Cabbage Patch dolls may cause destructive behavior in children.”

….to the Arkansas scandal is that one Kenneth Dewitt was accused of 50 counts of sexual assault committed against at least three inmates. Joe, be careful that you don’t overstate the case—thankfully it appears to have been only one perpetrator, and while he was IBLP, it’s hard to draw statistical conclusions on n=1.

Per Jim’s comment, the biggest problem with Gothard isn’t weird lifestyle prescriptions. It’s that whether he gets the conclusion right or wrong, he takes the student through a chain of illogic so that the student is actually trained not to think straight by the end of his IBLP courses. It really cuts at the heart of the 1st fundamental, IMO.