Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary President to Calvinists: Leave!
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….I can concur with Donn. We can differ reasonably on whether Augustine and Calvin rightly process the doctrines of Paul, but (apart from the question of inserting the Apostles’ Creed as a significant source), it is indisputable that Calvin builds on Paul and Augustine. The question is not whether Reformed theologians say these kinds of things, but whether statements like this constitute a basis for separation, in my view.
At this point my opinion is that, absent aggravating circumstances, it does not.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Dr. Patterson gave further explanation that he is not asking anyone to leave the SBC. He said he was explaining what he personally would do. I don’t want to speak for him so here is the link:
http://theologicalmatters.com/2016/12/02/concerning-remarks-on-calvinism-in-chapel-at-southwestern/
[dlhanson]Dr. Patterson gave further explanation that he is not asking anyone to leave the SBC. He said he was explaining what he personally would do. I don’t want to speak for him so here is the link:
http://theologicalmatters.com/2016/12/02/concerning-remarks-on-calvinism-in-chapel-at-southwestern/
I’m glad to see the clarification. I agree that the students shouldn’t have walked out. I still think that Patterson was unwise to paint the Calvinist/Reformed vs Arminianism(I am using that term in a very broad manner) as a Baptist vs Presbyterian issue. I think he’s wrong to assume that it has to be all or nothing regarding Calvinism.
When I first came into the doctrines of grace in the early eighties, I received exactly the same comments as those made by Patterson. Some Baptists in my area told me that what I believed was not baptistic, and that I either needed to change my doctrine or become Presbyterian. That led to two considerations: 1) A study of Presbyterianism. I concluded that I could not become Presbyterian, primarily because of infant baptism, along with their understanding of the church. 2) A study of Baptist church history, where I learned that English and American Baptists have a long and rich history of Calvinism. Patterson is not only wrong, but seriously so. A man who makes such statements has no business heading a Baptist seminary, in my opinion. He manifests significant historical ignorance.
G. N. Barkman
As Jeremy noted above, if we actually treasure our heritage and the way the Reformation led to where we are, shouldn’t we at least know about the historic Puritan/Separatist esteem for the doctrines of grace, even if we don’t agree with them in toto? And I have to wonder if Patterson knows better—hard to believe that one got an earned doctorate without at least hearing it around the coffee pot.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
I would encourage Page with the thought….. if you are getting tired living with Calvinist and Calvinish leaders in the SBC ….. if you are done with that maybe a better move is for you to move on over to the Free Will Baptist. They would love you in Nashville.
Ye must be born again….. and again ….. and again ……! :)
Straight Ahead!
jt
ps - Actually I know that the Free Will Baptist guys take the Heb 6 view once you depart you’re done……so no need to correct my last statement of fun there…..
Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Bible Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;
Is what we used to call at MBBC, “Snack Shop Theology.”
Hoping to shed more light than heat..
was also how we referred to it at NBBC and BJU.
It never ceases to amaze me that the body of Christ continually picks fights with itself instead of with our real issues. Amazes and saddens me.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
His clarification was helpful. I forgive him!
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
“In my reported statements, let it be clear that I asked no one to leave the SBC! Let me go further and say that I am fully aware that Baptists have historically been divided into two camps (at least)—namely, Calvinist and non-Calvinist. I do not anticipate that this will change, though historically, one observes an ebb and flow within these positions, just as in the doctrine of eschatology. I must also acknowledge that as long as the heart is hot for the winning of men and women to Christ, as long as the passionate evangelism exhibited in the New Testament is the major commitment, as long as the Calvinism on display is like that of Spurgeon, who even wrote a book specifically on soul-winning, I am content—no, I am elated to work with these brethren for the cause of Christ.”
-Paige Patterson
http://theologicalmatters.com/2016/12/02/concerning-remarks-on-calvinis…
When Paige Patterson was SBC President he appointed the members of the committee that produced the Baptist Faith & Message 2000, the doctrinal statement of the SBC. Among those he chose was Al Mohler.
Patterson is a first rate scholar and evangelist. Anytime you hear something terrible about him, I’d suggest you give it a little time for more information to come out. And, he will probably be vindicated.
David R. Brumbelow
http://baptistmessage.com/seminary-students-part-spontaneous-protest-fa…
In an unusual show of defiance a few students at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary stood and then walked out during the chapel service Nov. 29 in apparent disagreement with the speaker.
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The students were reacting to a message by Rick Patrick, pastor of First Baptist Church in Sylacauga, Alabama, and a 1993 graduate of Southwestern Seminary.
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Patrick’s 38-minute message focused on the primacy of salvation in Christ.
In the first part of his sermon, Patrick noted he came to Christ after hearing the plan of salvation and praying “The Sinner’s Prayer.”
Patrick said it was disconcerting when 30 years later that prayer was being blamed for sending people to Hell.
“The blame lies not with the form of expression, but rather with the lack of sincerity in the heart of the false professor,” Patrick said.
He also urged the chapel crowd not to neglect the study of salvation, offering his view that traditionalists (non-Calvinists) and Calvinists see things differently when it comes to “matters of ministry and theology.”
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Declaring Baptists share a basic sense of orthodoxy concerning the Virgin Birth, the Trinity and the Scriptures, Patrick said the road diverges after that and Calvinists and traditionalists split ways.
Patrick said he and some other like-minded pastors had taken notice of the growth of Calvinism in the Southern Baptist Convention, including ministry organizations, sponsored conferences, and even book giveaways promoting Calvinistic views on church history, church governance, church planting and cultural engagement.
In all, they identified six different Calvinist organizations that had emerged in Southern Baptist life.
With that discovery, Patrick said he and these other pastors decided there should be at least one that represents the (Herschel)Hobbs/(Adrian) Rogers non-Calvinistic doctrinal position, “a basic view of salvation” embraced by the early writers of the Baptist Faith & Message.
Hence the group formed Connect 316, an organization he said is not part of the new Calvinistic movement, but, “rather, we are an organized, respectful response to that movement.”
Patrick said the difference on the issue of salvation is no small matter, insisting the doctrine of salvation is a key distinctive of Southern Baptist thought and life.
How one views salvation also influences what a person thinks about other spiritual issues, he said.
Patrick said a believer’s soteriological view shapes his or her view on the “Sinner’s Prayer,” “evangelists,” “altar calls,” and “mode of baptism.”
He said it even influences what one believes about “God and country” and the use of “alcohol and tobacco.”
Patrick shared how a growing number of Southern Baptists are expressing concerns about individuals and groups in the SBC who “increasingly embrace the Presbyterian view of salvation doctrine, church government, the mode of baptism, avoidance of the altar call, the use of beverage alcohol, the approval of societal missions funding and so on.”
These practices are broader than the issue of salvation, Patrick conceded, but he insisted each is driven by a person’s basic belief about what salvation means.
“If we are not careful a myriad of related beliefs and practices will enter our camp, hidden within the Trojan Horse of Calvinism,” Patrick asserted.
I won’t touch much of what Patrick said, but I would have hoped that people familiar with the Parable of the Sower would not simply blame those who fall away for “not being serious enough”, and that even those who love altar calls would admit that all too often, they are used in a totally manipulative way. I came here after writing about the experience of my former church, which was claiming 800 conversions over the past 20 years of VBS, but while there was only one person in attendance between the ages of 20 and 40 besides the pastor and his wife. They had the Sinner’s Prayer and altar calls, but no fruit, and it’s time for traditionalists like Patrick to come to grips with this reality, not to mention the abyssmal retention rates (what, 2% or less?) that you’ll see among those who are “saved” at a Billy Graham crusade.
Hopefully one does not need to be a “Calvinist” to clue in on this.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Let’s take a look at the “Cliff’s Notes” summary of Patrick’s objections to Calvinism—whether he defines it as the “bulb and bloom” or all 46 (or so) volumes of theology isn’t clear, but let’s go with it.
Our doctrine of salvation will change our approach to “The Sinner’s Prayer”, “evangelists”, “altar calls”, “mode of baptism”, “beverage alcohol and tobacco”, “societal missions”, and the like. Now as I look through this list, most of these things are not clearly spelled out in the Scriptures aside from the mode of immersion. More or less, it’s a classic example of Jim’s diagram of the failure of fundamentalism; every little thing becomes a critical issue, whether or not there is serious Scriptural evidence for that imperative.
And if “Connect316” is indeed formed to demonstrate that the “traditionalist” (sometimes called Arminian, I believe) understanding of salvation is indeed critical to the Baptist version of the faith, and if Patrick indeed believes that Calvinism (however he defines it) is a “Trojan Horse” that will undermine true faith, one would have to assume that Patrick and “Connect316” at least—and possibly also the guy who invited him—are indeed working to show Calvinism the door at the SBC.
Seems to me that having Patrick speak so soon after this kerfuffle blew up is either a serious error on the part of Patterson, or an admission that the Calvinist students had a good point, or possibly both.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
The article concludes:
Patterson ended his statement with a focus on baptism as well, in context of salvation, and in a larger sense, evangelism.
He said the whole Conservative Resurgence, which was a fight about Southern Baptists’ beliefs, “was really always about one thing—reaching men and women for Christ.”
Patterson wrote. “My unalterable fear for our denomination today is that baptisms will continue to plummet, giving a certain indication of loss of evangelistic concern and fervency.
“Southern Baptists prospered by being the most effectively evangelistic among all denominations, and we will only prosper again if we honor God in that way,” Patterson continued.
I share this concern. But, the real bogeyman in the way of this goal is not Calvinism. It is Satan, and all the trouble he causes in Christian’s lives and in local churches to hinder evangelism and effective discipleship. Both sides should focus on combating that threat, and stop maligning friends who share the same goals.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
Rude to walk out on a chapel speaker
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