“if you don’t go to a large church, you are so stinking selfish…and don’t care about your kids.”
I was thinking about IFB history last night. Took a few books from my shelves and started to read. I was reminded that IFB’s once boasted about the fact that in a great number of the states the largest church was IFB (say in the 1940’s - 1960’s).
In 1969, Elmer Towns published a list of the 10 largest churches in the United States. Topping the list was Akron Baptist Temple (Ohio). Of the 10, 8 were IFB, with 1 Southern Baptist and 1 independent church rounding out the list. Among the 8 IFB were names like Highland Park Baptist (Chattanooga), Landmark Baptist (Cincinnati), Temple Baptist (Detroit), and Canton Baptist (Ohio). At their peaks, these were all churches whose congregations numbered in the thousands.
From 1935 to 1951, J. Frank Norris was the pastor (simultaneously!) of both First Baptist (Fort Worth) and Temple Baptist (Detroit), traveling back & forth between them by train or plane. In 1946, their combined membership was 26,000.
It just strikes me that back then, when IFB churches were the “mega churches” in the land, that a bigger-is-better attitude prevailed–and was promoted–among IFB’s.
anyone who doesn’t live in a metroplex. It spoke volumes to his ministry blinders when he said what he did.
I love that quote someone put above from MacArthur about your sermon out of your zip code. I think it mostly applies to “mega-church” and tv pastors, but it is still good.
I agree that Stanley is way off base in his comments but thank you Larry Nelson for reminding us of our history. “Bigger is better” was OK when we were the “bigger”. Big fundamental churches and pastors were publicly praised and “doctored” while faithful men in smaller works were all but ignored. (examples available)
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
About five years after I graduated from college I received a letter from a former classmate asking for $1000 to help keep his church from going bankrupt. I called my father-in-law who also graduated from the same college and knew the man. He also got a letter. Seems the guy started a church in rural PA in a town of about 200. I believe he had about 35 members and he built a 2000 seat auditorium. I have no idea how he got that loan. His theme for the building project was “We will build and God will fill”. Apparently God had other plans.
Richard E Brunt
Committing to a building project by using the Field of Dreams philosophy usually doesn’t end well …
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
[Richard Brunt] I believe he had about 35 members and he built a 2000 seat auditorium. I have no idea how he got that loan. His theme for the building project was “We will build and God will fill”. Apparently God had other plans.
Providentially, we both posted our comments at the exact same time, without knowing what the other was doing. Accident? I think not …
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
I think there are really two stories.
Story 1 - Mega Church pastor makes poorly worded statement indicating he believes mega churches are the best strategy - Outrage against mega churches and “celebrity” pastors ensues.
Story 2 - A pastor makes a poorly worded statement in a sermon and not only apologizes that people were offended, but actually admits that what he said was wrong. - now THAT is really something.
Story 2 happens when preachers depart from their text and start injecting their own thoughts into the sermon.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
Here is the problem with being a celebrity pastor. By his own words in the new CT story, he was talking to his church (or churches since apparently he is “pastor” of 6 churches…). The problem is they broadcasted the sermon all over and made it available to everyone. Perhaps a celebrity pastor should know when he is talking just to his church and needs to not stream that.
For example, I can tell the at Grace Community Church with MacArthur that there are things that are said that are not broadcast out to the general public. Every now and then he refers to things said before the sermon, etc.
[Mark_Smith]Assuming you take Andy Stanley at his words
Yes, I am.
I’m not predisposed to believe someone is lying or misleading in their explanation and apologies without some basis for that kind of assumption.
[driddick]Mark_Smith wrote:
Assuming you take Andy Stanley at his words
Yes, I am.
I’m not predisposed to believe someone is lying or misleading in their explanation and apologies without some basis for that kind of assumption.
OK, what about the rest of my comment. He apologized. Should he realize as a “celebrity pastor” that there is a difference between him speaking to his specific congregations (which I reject the idea of multi-site churches, but that is besides the point) and something you release to the world.
I completely agree with you. He should have realized that, and based on everything I’ve read, he clearly does now.
I’ll give you a pass on your multi-site comments, I pastor a multi-site church location. :-) :-)
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