501(c) That?

a flat tax is ever going to be enacted.

That is not my point is it? I am reminded more and more why I have seemingly so little in common with the right wing.

Let’s take a scenario: let’s say that the government passed a law tomorrow that all practicing Christians would get a $5,000 housing allowance. Then in 20 years, they change their mind and take it away. When they change their mind, would that be tyranny? This reminds me of how some welfare recipients whine when their benefits are cut rather than being thankful that they ever got any in the first place. But that is pretty much the same scenario as what we are discussing here, no?

I think terms like tyranny and persecution are just thrown around a bit much. That is true especially within the context of the US which is a secular (no preferred religion) country by Constitutional design and yet is enormously friendly to Christianity, partly because 70% of the country claims Christianity.

because it will never be enacted… However, I think the charitable giving deduction will be disappear “soon”. If Hillary makes the WH in 2016, it will happen sooner. I think states will start cutting sales tax exemptions for churches before that. I think all of those things should be opposed and fought in court, but I think ultimately we will lose UNLESS a revival breaks out in America.

GregH, I assume you know that the main tactic of the “New Atheism” is to treat Christianity like it is so absurd that only ridicule is the way to address it. It is those people who want to use taxation of churches as a way to control them. Do you see that?

Have you ever argued with a New Atheist? Have you talked to politicians who are chomping at the bit to get our tax money? Have you talked to hundreds of Millennials who scoff at Christianity?

Do you think a charitable tax deduction for church giving is unfair? Do you think ANY charitable deduction is unfair (say $ to the Red Cross for example)?

I am probably more sensitive to this topic then most because I work at a secular university. I work at a place where if you shout “I am a Christian” you will be unofficially ridiculed. I have no friends at work. None. There is no one else who is a “real” Christian.

Instead, I am surrounded by many homosexuals. Have of the heterosexual couples aren’t married (but get work benefits). They opening mock Christianity regularly. Almost every employee has attended “LGBT ALLY” training and have a pink sticker on their door. I do not.

So, I see what these people want. i know what they think. I am in touch with it more than I am fellow believers…

[GregH]

How is changing the tax law tyranny or persecution? If we moved to the flat tax or sales tax, would that be tyranny and persecution? After all, that would kill those deductions too.

Of course the government has every right to do that, and we as Christians have every right to use every legal means (just as Paul did by appealing to Caesar, etc.) to protest/overcome unjust laws that are established.

The question is, whether we should undertake illegal means to overcome unjust laws. I’m not sure that Wilson has convinced me that we should do that in this specific (currently hypothetical) scenario.

you guys here at SI tend to think in terms of ministry, but what about your parishioners?

Let’s assume “sexual identity and SSM, etc” gets added to the Civil Rights Act. Or perhaps it already is in their state. They are at work. A conversation starts about SSM. They comment that they don’t believe in it. They are then fired because because the employer doesn’t want them around because they are a “bigot”. Compare that to what happened to the Mozilla CEO who was let go after just a few weeks because he DONATED to the anti-SSM proposition in California.

This stuff is coming. In “short order” saying “I oppose Same-Sex Marriage” will be seen by your employer as the same as saying “I hate black people”.