The campus and assets of Northland International University gifted to Southern Seminary

…once the SBC realizes that there are no Southern Baptists in Wisconsin (or at least none that I’ve met in 12 years), they’ll have to sell the property. An SBC school simply will not survive in Wisconsin any longer than a cactus would. It’s a sad fate, but that’s what happens when you build a college on the northern edge of the world.

Someone pointed out to me in correspondence that Wheaton has had a northern campus since 1951, even further north than Northland. http://www.wheaton.edu/HoneyRock

I would say that while the Northland property may not be exactly what it was over the last 4-5 decades, that doesn’t mean the campus won’t have a future, and probably even a productive one for them. But it will be different than it has been.

In regards to there being “no SBCers in WI”- I would observe that there might be more if they start training grads there and they start planting churches… Not saying that’s what I want, only that might be the result.

that gifting the school to the SBC is the wholesale rejection of everything (except the pure gospel of course) that Northland stood for as a separatist fundamentalist school. Every sermon that was preached, every lesson taught about separation from the world, music, general worldview, etc., was thrown away when they gifted (not even sell it!) to the SBC. It is a bitter pill for many to take and I don’t think the reaction of some here to that is unreasonable at all. In fact I think it has been tame!

Will the property be used for the gospel? Most likely (unless the SBC just out and out sells it). But will the historic fundamentalism that the founder and people who attended and supported it over the years be advanced? Not at all.

FWIW- I was baptized at 19 in an SBC church. I attended 4 different ones in 3 states over 5 years in the 1990s (none of them liberal in theology btw). The difference between the SBC and fundamental baptist is what I would call “extreme”. To me John MacArthur is WAY MORE fundamental than the average SBC pastor that I encountered.

[Joel Tetreau]

I appreciate your response Ken. For some of you who are critical of Matt, the board and of anyone who has helped the present Northland in there new relationship with Southern - let me try a different approach to try and help you. So consider this - Pills is gone. Northland is no longer a Type A fundamentalist institution. Other institutions still connected to Type A fundamentalism are small or shrinking (with maybe one exception) or gone/soon gone. The reality is you who are committed to Type A baptist fundamentalism who refuse to be connected with Type B fundamentalism (think Tetreau)……or Type C fundamentalism (Think Mac, Northland or Dever) are going to watch (with a few exceptions) your churches and your institutions shrink because your denomination is shrinking. That doesn’t mean you have a bad denomination - it just means your smaller than you used to be. It is the new reality. Just as we see with smaller denominations (like Free Pres) - it maybe that you’ll only have enough students for one or two schools. Now as I suggested in my various “line in the sand” appeals over the last decade - it doesn’t have to be that way. Look - if you would be willing to allow a partnership with Type B and type C kinds of fundamentalists…..you probably could maintain a larger band-width. However, if you refuse to do that - you will continue to loose institutions, because the vast majority of your young people have and will continue to reject a pure “Type A” fundamentalism. Don’t blame Matt - it’s not his fault. It’s your fault! You taught your students soul-liberty and Biblical authority vs. tradition and those kids did there homework and discovered too much of Type A fundamentalism was built on the traditions of man instead of the doctrines of Scripture. So……here is the reality - Matt and the majority of the board came to an understanding to continue to be connected with Type A fundamentalism was not most consistent Biblically - and so they changed where they had too. God has now blessed that by the new relationship with the white hats of the SBC. I’m no prophet but I suggested 9 years ago we would see this sort of thing. I’m confident we will continue to see this and the eventual death of the old fundamntalism and the birth of a new fundamentalism. Of course numbers of you will say this is newevangelicalism but it isn’t. This probably is a return to the fundamentalism of the first generation which was far more Biblical the recent version. Hopefully this will help some of you who struggle.

As always - Straight Ahead!

jt

This is dead on, Joel. Another related generational difference besides those you mentioned is a different view of authority. I’m thirty. My parents were in college in the 70s. They grew up in a time where, at least in fundamentalism, you did what you were told. They might teach soul liberty as you mentioned, but you also are to do what you are told. The real bomb went off when the authority stuctures and networks (church pastors, schools etc.) could no longer control who you were listening to. Why? The internet.
The growth of the internet is a bomb that went off in the
2000s. It hit every area of life, but one thing it did to fundamentalist young people, is they could actually see into other denominations like the SBC unfiltered by pastors or schools. They also can see into the past of fundamentalism unfiltered. Perhaps out of context, they could see archives of racist, overly authoritarian or boorish behavior in the past.

I would challenge any fundamentalist institution to think really hard about how the internet effects them in non-obvious ways. In coming years, fundamentalist schools are going to need to step up their game and as Jim said DEMAND a higher standard.
In a few weeks I will be joining an SBC church plant here in Nashville TN where I just moved. In terms of doctrine and practice they’re quite conservative (9Marks/Dever stream). They have maybe 150 people, and send out missionaries. Recently 25 members went to a country in Central Asia to watch the kids of SBC missionaries and cook for them as they were gathering for a conference. Almost all of these missionaries could be killed if it was found out that they were missionaries in countries they work. It’s a church that radically loves each other as I’ve seen few other places. I know some of you are disappointed with Northland and feel like you’ve lost to the SBC, but take a long view.

In the next 20 years, evangelical Christianity in America will be going into exile. The sheep and the goats are being called out. Either you’re going to be on board with homosexual marriage or you aren’t, and if you aren’t, you’re out of polite society. The days of Billy Graham on network TV are over. No one is going to be an evangelical for the public respectability. Our SBC brothers are well placed to bear the brunt of the war that’s coming. They kept their denomination from becoming liberal just for this time in history. If you’re not going to join them denominationally, at least give them an ‘ata boy! Pray for them. Support them as best you can in keeping with your conscience. Because soon we’ll all be “fundamentalists” or we’ll be apostate. There won’t be a mushy middle for the right wing of fundamentalists to really worry about.

History lesson from the early ‘80’s: LABC (what’s the LABC you ask?) was gifted to John MacAuthor’s ministry.

And the screaming headline in the DA Waite paper was “How the GARBC ‘lost’ LABC”

Why did that happen? “LABC provided Biblical training for many years before the lack of support from the Regular Baptist Churches forced Dr. Dunkin, the College President to … “

And how did that turn out? “…. work out an agreement with John F. MacArthur, Pastor of Grace Community Church in the San Fernando Valley, to assume leadership of the college in 1985. At this time, the college changed its name to The Master’s College, reflecting its wholehearted commitment to Jesus Christ. Since the beginning of Dr. MacArthur’s tenure as President, the college has grown to feature a student body of approximately 1,000 undergraduate students, in addition to a Degree Completion program where working adults can earn a BA degree, as well as two Master of Arts programs, a California Teaching Credential program, and a rapidly growing online program”

It turned out very well!

Think “silver lining” folk!

[AndrewK]

1) If using different musical instruments—or for that matter even tolerating charismaticism—means a “move to the left,” then I’m not entirely sure what the “left” means.

2) I think Southern Baptists probably know more about the state of…Southern Baptists in the north than we do. They’re not fools, and they frequently run things with much more wisdom than their fundy Baptist cousins.

3) “Northern edge of the world”? I wonder if Canada knows they don’t exist.

In all seriousness, though, your attitude strikes me as a far cry from Paul’s in Philippians regarding the ultimate good of the spread of the gospel.

[AaronMikeFugate]

3) “Northern edge of the world”? I wonder if Canada knows they don’t exist.

The northern edge of the world is what it felt like I had dropped off of each time I visited NBBC. It’s extremely remote, but I guess that was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

Well, let me assure you that it feels like the edge of the world when they had fire drills at 2 AM in January. :)

Seriously, folks - God still has a plan. I’m disappointed too, especially when I explain that my school no longer exists. But if NIU is still used to train ministers and missionaries that preach Gospel truth…then I’m OK with that.

Advice: Move on from things that no longer exist

• The Baptist [Fundamental Baptist pastored by BJU grads] where I was baptized (1971) no longer exists
• A church I loved where I pastored for 3 years no longer exists
• A company for whom I worked - Digital Equipment Company - no longer exists
• The 20 year old Jim Peet who could exercise flips off a 15 ft diving board no longer exists
• The hair on the top of my head no longer exists
• Someday the planet which we call home will not longer exist

The Lord is the Alpha and Omega an He is eternal

…but at the same time, that’s not what you tell someone after a beloved relative dies.

With time comes perspective.

AaronMike (?),

Categorizing music styles as “fundamental biblical positions” I think strikes at the heart of the issues involved. Fewer and fewer young people see things that way, which I think is the point made by the Joels and Shaynus.

[Mark_Smith] You must admit the obvious that gifting the school to the SBC is the wholesale rejection of everything (except the pure gospel of course) that Northland stood for as a separatist fundamentalist school. Every sermon that was preached, every lesson taught about separation from the world, music, general worldview, etc., was thrown away when they gifted (not even sell it!) to the SBC.

If you think this is true, then you don’t know Northland very well. As Ken McMaster, Don Sailer, and others have said, NI was a solidly evangelical school from the very beginning, and separatist fundamentalists tried to take it over and make it into their image. That failed.

You also said that gifting the school to the SBC is a wholesale rejection of everything Northland stood for. I disagree. For example - I have a NBBC key fob from the gift shop on my key ring that I bought my senior year. There are four words on it:

• Honesty
• Obedience
• Service
• Wisdom

Are you saying that those values aren’t taught by the SBC?

Here’s the NIU mission statement:

The mission of Northland International University is to glorify God by

(1) by providing an educational environment for developing servant-leaders in honesty, obedience, wisdom, and service to love Jesus Christ with all their heart, soul, and mind and

(2) by teaching students to live by the principles of God’s Word, to walk with God as His faithful laborers, and to serve in local churches for revival, world evangelization, and the discipling of future generations for the cause of Jesus Christ.

The purpose and mission statement of the SBC?

PURPOSE

… eliciting, combining, and directing the energies of the Baptist denomination of Christians, for the propagation of the gospel, any law, usage, or custom to the contrary notwithstanding.

- Charter of the Southern Baptist Convention, December 27, 1845

MISSION STATEMENT

As a convention of churches, our missional vision is to present the Gospel of Jesus Christ to every person in the world and to make disciples of all the nations.

- Adopted by the messengers to the 2010 Southern Baptist Convention in Orlando, Florida on June 15, 2010 in response to the Report of the Great Commission Task Force

I’m not seeing a ton of daylight between the two, and I think that anyone who argues that NI was a solidly separatist institution never understood the school from the get go. That much is becoming more and more obvious by the day.

Silver linings (I’m sure there are many so this is not an exhaustive list):

• The 1500 acre campus will be utilized … it has a future
• While NIU (few bought into the “University” designation) is gone … students attending the campus matriculate at Boyce (with regional accreditation) or Southern (which is a very good seminary in my mind)
• Consolidation generally results in a better use of resources. While such consolidation is painful in the short-run, it should result in a better use of the Lord’s money
• One less competitor could be good for MBBC, Faith, Clearwater CC and others

Lessons (there are many):

• Was there sufficient accountability in place? I suggest that in the case of EBM, NIU, and Pillsbury that the answer is not!). Christian leaders need to revisit the place and functions of boards for non-profits such as these ministries.
• What is the role of the Christian college? Why do we have them at all? Are there better methods to educate our youth? [I believe there is indeed a place for the Christian college!]

To Greg on the grief angle:

• I get that. When my Mom (now 94 1/2) dies, I will grieve. I wouldn’t expect anyone here on S/I to because she is not your mother.
• I am following a thread on F/B of a guy who worked at Northland. He is grieving
• Frankly I am indifferent. I’ve seen too many go - Spurgeon Baptist Bible College anyone!!! Another poorly located institution!

A hope: That another Bobby Woods type is raised up to do the post-mortem on Northland: after the smoke has cleared … after the shrill voices have been silenced. And that we would all learn lessons from this.

Before Pillsbury was a Bible College, it had been a college prep school and a military academy under the Minnesota Baptist Convention while it was still under the umbrella of the Northern Baptist Convention (what is now the American Baptist Churches in the USA).

Faith Baptist Bible College and Theological Seminary was originally founded as Omaha Bible Institute, a non-denominational school led by William Jordan, pastor of Omaha’s Third Presbyterian Church.

Cedarville College was originally a Reformed Presbyterian school before it merged with the Baptist Bible Institute of Cleveland, OH under the leadership of James T Jeremiah.

Things go in cycles. “We” have benefited as a movement from others’ decline or demise. I suppose it is not the worst thing if others who aren’t us benefit from “ours.”

You read my post and thought I meant that NIU would now not teach obedience, wisdom, honesty and service? Of course it will. The secular university I work at has a similar claim!

I also fully agree that Boyce and Southern Seminary teach the gospel and seek to preach it.

THAT IS NOT THE POINT.

You claim Northland never was a separatist school…that it was evangelical and separatists tried to take it over. I admit I have no personal experience with Northland other than having heard Les Ollila preach several times. But many I know and trust seem to say something different.

[Shaynus]

Joel Tetreau wrote:

Of course numbers of you will say this is newevangelicalism but it isn’t. This probably is a return to the fundamentalism of the first generation which was far more Biblical the recent version.

As always - Straight Ahead!

jt

The real bomb went off when the authority stuctures and networks (church pastors, schools etc.) could no longer control who you were listening to. Why? The internet.
The growth of the internet is a bomb that went off in the

2000s. It hit every area of life, but one thing it did to fundamentalist young people, is they could actually see into other denominations like the SBC unfiltered by pastors or schools. They also can see into the past of fundamentalism unfiltered. Perhaps out of context, they could see archives of racist, overly authoritarian or boorish behavior in the past. …. There won’t be a mushy middle for the right wing of fundamentalists to really worry about.

Another way to put it: the truth came out. The Old Fundamentalists like to cite their old mantra: Thesis (thus saith Fundamentalism), antithesis (Modernists), and synthesis-compromise, syncretism (New Evangelicalism). But this does not hold when what the Fundamentalists are saying is wrong. Fundamentalism has no competent scholars: they have to borrow from CE scholars their core doctrinal beliefs. The only thing Fundamentalists publish is “separation” distinctives of which they don’t know what they are talking about.

Separation is a heart matter mostly and externally of second importance (yes, no intermarriage and other things of course). Israel was separate but how? It was set in the middle of the fertile crescent on a land bridge as a “gateway to the nations” (see Ezekiel description of how the King of Tyre wanted to control the land routes as well as the sea monopoly he already had). So, it can be seen that Israel was a sort of “city set on a hill which could not be hid”. They were to be separate in heart but not in separate in contact. The same for us today.

The remoteness of Northland probably initially (for the fundamentalists) looked attractive for their idea of “separation from the world”. It (the idea) follows the old institutional monasticism of the Romanists. It (the idea) has an appearance of wisdom but lacks the power to transform lives.

[Mark_Smith] You claim Northland never was a separatist school…that it was evangelical and separatists tried to take it over. I admit I have no personal experience with Northland other than having heard Les Ollila preach several times. But many I know and trust seem to say something different.

People you know and trust? Like who? The separatists that tried to turn it into what they wanted instead of letting it be what it was from the very beginning? The people who mentioned today on a Facebook page that it would have been better for the school to close and sit vacant than for it to be taken over by the SBC? When are you going to give credit to people like Don Sailer (in the 2013 threads) - who has very close ties to the Patz’s and would know better what they wanted that friends you know and trust - or to Ken McMaster (current Board President), or to alumnae like myself? Or do we not count because we aren’t as “independent” “fundamental” and “separatist” as those of your kind of fundamentalism? Are we second class believers, in the vein of James 2?

Is that the kind of Fundamentalism - although it’s not fundamentalism, it’s something else - what you WANT? A fundamentalism where death is preferable to living service? A fundamentalism where it’s better to end a ministry than it is to continue in a place where you don’t agree with every jot and tittle of another Christian’s practices? A fundamentalism that really is a despotism - where the grand poobah tells everyone that this is the way it’s going to be, or you’re going to be thrown out or ignored as ‘not really a fundamentalist’?

I have a line going through my mind from The Empire Strikes Back as I read this… “Life creates the Force…makes it grow.” Since when did a movement committed to God, who created all things and holds all things together and who gives life, become obsessed with division? What is the priority here?