City of Houston demands pastors turn over sermons

The article doesn’t say what the basis was for the subpoenas? I am curious what justification convinced the courts to request pastors turn over sermons and correspondence between pastors and parishioners.

[Chip Van Emmerik]

The article doesn’t say what the basis was for the subpoenas? I am curious what justification convinced the courts to request pastors turn over sermons and correspondence between pastors and parishioners.

http://www.adfmedia.org/News/PRDetail/9349#

I saw this article via Instapundit…

City attorneys issued subpoenas last month during the case’s discovery phase, seeking, among other communications, “all speeches, presentations, or sermons related to HERO, the Petition, Mayor Annise Parker, homosexuality, or gender identity prepared by, delivered by, revised by, or approved by you or in your possession.”

The subpoenas were issued to several high-profile pastors and religious leaders who have been vocal in opposing the ordinance. The Alliance Defending Freedom has filed a motion on behalf of the pastors seeking to quash the subpoenas.

Dan Phillips (of the Pyromaniacs blog) is a pastor in Houston, but he hadn’t been subpoena’d when we talked this morning on Twitter.

“Subpoena? Subpoena? They don’t need no stinkin’ subpoena.” Most of the churches have their sermons available on the internet.

I just did some research into the situation, and posted the results (along with my take) on my blog, for anyone that is interested.

http://stevepicray.com/2014/10/15/city-of-houston-rejects-freedom-of-speech-and-religion/

Since he takes such a clear and hard stand on homosexuality, I would expect Joel Osteen to be one of the pastors subpoenaed.

Oh . .wait . .

[Ron Bean] “Subpoena? Subpoena? They don’t need no stinkin’ subpoena.” Most of the churches have their sermons available on the internet.

The point isn’t the subpoena. The point is to bury churches under tons of pointless and resource consuming ‘requests’ from City Hall in order to sap their will and their wallets in order to ensure that they don’t fight the HERO (Houston Equal Rights Ordinance) or that they aren’t criticizing Mayor Parker, an self-identified lesbian.

This is straight out of Saul Alinsky’s playbook:

* RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

* RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)
* RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.

* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

But it would be nice to see a judge rule that if City Hall wants these things, they can get them from the website instead of mandating that they are printed or put on CDs that I am sure CH will just throw in a dumpster.

The goal of the LGBT organizations is to destroy biblical Christianity and the traditional family, both of which are threats to their perversion. We are organizing a press conference next Tuesday at the Capitol in Lansing, Mi with 50 or more Fundamental Baptist pastors to state our objections to the new anti-discrimination bills regarding LGBT.

I remember speaking to our city council in the final session before they voted on a city LGBT anti-discrimination ordinance. It was packed out with out-of-towners. I shared that I was a sinner and that the Lord did not tolerate my sin, but by grace I gained redemption. The vote that night went in favor toward the LGBT.

This past week on a visit to my town, I listened to our state governor state that he made a vow before God to uphold our state constitution which defines marriage between man and woman. But this week, the national American voice has trumped Idaho. Our county courthouse is now required to issue marriage licenses to gays and lesbians. It has thrown the county office into a bit of chaos. For southeastern Idaho, our sense of traditional family has been one of our idols. And now, it is being stripped away.

One thing I do know, our weapons are not carnal in the pulling down of strongholds.

Another situation recently was reported on by ChristianPost and WorldNetDaily—a student at Trinity Western College in Canada applied for a wilderness guide position found out that the company was run by “gay vikings” (no kidding; homosexuals who claim Viking religion and culture) and that they were willing to “tolerate anything as long as the person agreed with them on homosexuality”.

Sounds like the mayor here is of the same view. Tolerance means simply “you agree with me.” OK, but that’s not exactly what Mr. Webster says about the matter…..

One other thought; it appears that Houston has over two million people, probably 1.5 million eligible to vote, but Mayor Parker was re-elected with only 97,000 votes with only about 180,000 votes cast overall. It strikes me that if the city’s Christians had gotten off their rears and supported a viable candidate, Ms. Parker could have been rightly removed from office.

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/responding-subpoenas

But not good to ignore it

[Jim] http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/responding-subpoenas But not good to ignore it

It seems to me that I Peter 4 would apply here re: whether or not the subpoena should be contested:

Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

I think I’d obey the subpoena while fighting its legality.

As an aside, I don’t remember who said this, but I think it is rude to call those of the LGBT persuasion (or fans of the Minnesota football team) ‘viqueens’. Seriously - we can act better than that and live in a way that demonstrates our disagreement without the name calling.

If they are trying Saul Alinski’s rules why don’t we also? Where do these sermons need to be delivered? Evidently some kind of hearing…deliver them orally at the city commission meeting.

the post you are seemingly responding to. It referred to “queer Vikings”. The descriptive seems to be used by this particular river rafting company’s ownership to describe them selves.

[Jay]

SNIP

As an aside, I don’t remember who said this, but I think it is rude to call those of the LGBT persuasion (or fans of the Minnesota football team) ‘viqueens’. Seriously - we can act better than that and live in a way that demonstrates our disagreement without the name calling.

We have a duty to obey government, unless doing so will result in sin:

“Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men,” (1 Pet 2:13-15).

The only NT examples of people defying the laws of government are when complying with government would have resulted in sin. For example, Peter refused to obey the order of the Jewish council to stop preaching the Gospel (Acts 4:18-20; 5:27-29). Even Paul showed proper respect by apologizing to the High Priest when he insulted the man (Acts 23:3-5).

On the situation in Houston - they aren’t ordering anybody to stop preaching. It’s merely intimidation. They just want the material to “evaluate it.”

• Obey the subpoena if you have to
• Meanwhile, follow the legal route to quash the witch-hunt
• Preach against sin and proclaim the message of forgiveness without fear regardless.

Consider that God may use a Christ-honoring response to convict hearts. What an amazing statement it would make if the Pastors held a joint news conference and explained that this outrageous reaction is indicative of all of our rebellion against God and His created order, and proclaim that salvation and forgiveness is available to anybody regardless. Explain 1 Peter 2:13-15. Explain, in Biblical terms, why they are opposed to the HERO law. Turn this spotlight into an opportunity to glorify God.