"Logos is charging for software so incomplete and buggy that Microsoft wouldn't send it out the door as an Alpha, let alone a Beta. "
[Chip Van Emmerik] Perhaps this belongs in a different thread, but the topic got me wondering. I have used esword and online bible for several years to great benefit - particularly since both are free. What features would I gain by using Logos or Bibleworks or something else? I recently learned logos offers a diagramming tool which piqued my interest. Is this true? What else am I missing?I don’t know much about e sword, but I suspect the major differences would be these:
- available resources… doesn’t look like you can get BAGD, Bible Knowledge Commentary, ESV Reverse Interlinear, Word Biblical Commenatry, IVP NT Commentary, MacArthur’s commentaries, and host of other things
http://sharperiron.org/sites/default/files/images/esvrishot.png
- language tools: I doubt that in e sword you can right click a word and get a list of every occurrence of the underlying Grk or Heb. word in an “Englishman’s Concordance” report in about 10 seconds… or hover over any NASB word and see the lexical info from the resource of your choice
Those two are the main attractions for me. And now that Zondervan titles are moving to Logos as well, I have even more reason to keep it. I hope there will be a way to somehow transfer my old “STEP” version of Expositor’s Bible Commentary to Logos w/o paying full price.
Anyway, if all I wanted to do was look up phrases and keywords, I’d probably use something cheaper and simpler. But the nature of software is that the more it does, the harder it is to master the interface. But usually the more worth it is to master the interface.
So for those who just want to do simple searches in a few public domain resources, Logos is probably not the best option.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[mounty] Good to know I’m not the only one who uses his phone as a Bible in church. For me the issue is wanting to use the ESV without causing problems if someone were to pick up my Bible and analyze the spine (which has happened before). A lot of times I won’t even use an English translation at all and completely avoid the issue. :)
Wow. Just wow… I left a strongly KJVO church, and I haven’t looked back. My current pastor prefers the NKJV, but often asks for readings from people with NASB or ESV in the pew.
I actually use the KJV mostly, since I’m comfortable with it, but I switch between versions all the time. ESV and NKJV are my most popular other choices. Since my wife and I both read German, I sometimes use Luther or Elberfelder as well, but that is less common. Sometimes it helps in a difficult passage to see how it was translated in a different language.
[QUOTE] But it is an electronic gizmo and there’s always the temptation when it vibrates at me to hop over to my email real quick and see what just came in.[/QUOTE]
I always have my email set so I have to go check it to get new messages. That seems to work well for me. I do have to remember to turn off my notifications for hockey games, since I get a notification whenever a goal is scored or the period ends, etc.
[QUOTE] But it’s a lot better than walking into church with an armload of Bibles and concordances. Instead it’s a small phone and a web browser pointed at BibleGateway.com or one of my Bible apps. Cleaner, faster, less likely to cause problems.[/QUOTE]
That’s what I like too.
Dave Barnhart
[Greg Linscott] My 11 year old daughter recently purchased an iPod Touch she bought with her own money she earned from her paper route. I bought her the NKJV from Olive Tree available in the iTunes app store, and she is allowed to use it in church as her Bible long as she doesn’t use it for the games and other things. She has honored the agreement thus far.
When I got my iPhone, I passed my iPod Touch to my 16 year old daughter so she could do the same thing. Took her a while at first to remember it, but one night I noticed she was using it for her devotions instead of a paper Bible, so I think it’s here to stay for her too.
I can imagine how helpful it would be to a new convert who is comfortable with technology.
Dave Barnhart
[mounty]… But it’s a lot better than walking into church with an armload of Bibles and concordances. Instead it’s a small phone and a web browser pointed at BibleGateway.com or one of my Bible apps. Cleaner, faster, less likely to cause problems.
I believe I get it now. Since I do all the multi-book work in my office then take my notes to the pulpit, it doesn’t affect me but there have been times back in seminary days—and now at conferences and stuff—that I wanted to have maybe two translations and Greek/Hebrew along… but without a table in front you, not practical. Enter the handheld computer/smartphone. If I were listening to sermons regularly rather than delivering them, I believe I’d go buy a smartphone just for that (or maybe a netbook… still a bit cumbersome and conspicuous but less so than a fully equipped laptop?) Ausgezeichnet.
I am curious to hear from pastors, though - I know you can see when people use phones or what have you during the service. Is it at all distracting to you?
I’ve only seen a couple do this at our church and no, it didn’t bother me at all.
But I’d really miss the rustling of pages if everybody did it.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Funny that someone brought it up - I was taking my old Palm IIIC to church five years ago until the wife nixed it. I was the only one there doing it, and since I was also the only one there with a Palm pilot, we decided it just didn’t look good. Now, I’d do it in a heartbeat as a pastor, except that my audience would probably not like that and I’d miss having a bible on the topic of the pulpit…it just wouldn’t seem right to me.
I saw that CBD was having a “blowout sale” on Strong’s Concordances a couple weeks ago and was like, “Wow - they’re still making AND selling those. Who buys one of them anymore anyway?”
As you can guess, I wouldn’t mind if my audience did e-bibles [Kindle, laptop, IPhone, whatever] but I’d have to get over being paranoid that they’re texting in church. A couple of people in my home church [the one I was attending prior to taking the one I’m in] use their cell and such and the Pastor’s never worried about it or said anything.
BTW - Christianaudio.com is running a sale on audiobibles and audiobooks for MP3 players [since they’ve been mentioned]. I’m going to grab the complete audio ESV for $7.49 - some others here might be interested in that or if there are other translations.
I saw that CBD was having a “blowout sale” on Strong’s Concordances a couple weeks ago and was like, “Wow - they’re still making AND selling those. Who buys one of them anymore anyway?”
As you can guess, I wouldn’t mind if my audience did e-bibles [Kindle, laptop, IPhone, whatever] but I’d have to get over being paranoid that they’re texting in church. A couple of people in my home church [the one I was attending prior to taking the one I’m in] use their cell and such and the Pastor’s never worried about it or said anything.
BTW - Christianaudio.com is running a sale on audiobibles and audiobooks for MP3 players [since they’ve been mentioned]. I’m going to grab the complete audio ESV for $7.49 - some others here might be interested in that or if there are other translations.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
I have PC Study Bible, Bibleworks 7 and Logos 4 - all of which was given to me by loving church members or family members. I’m just grateful to have more good books than the Vatican library on my laptop that pastors of underground church pastors in Iran, Saudi, Vietnam, Samalia, etc.. would love to have and wouldn’t have a peep of complaint about it!
Americans are so ungrateful and demanding everything their way NOW! Even pastors… *sigh*
Americans are so ungrateful and demanding everything their way NOW! Even pastors… *sigh*
Americans are so ungrateful and demanding everything their way NOW! Even pastors… *sigh*If the books/software were distributed freely to everyone the point might stand more strongly. However, when Logos users are charged the prices they are, they have a right to expect the product to work correctly. http://ref.ly/Pr11] Proverbs makes it clear that unfair business practices displease God. One can argue that Bayly’s complaints may go beyond that, but it is not ingratitude when one expects the product to do what it says, or warns other users not to buy because the quality and value are not there. I am thankful for the convenience I get for my telephone, for example, but it would not be ungrateful to let people know that I was overcharged by my provider, or that the line was often distorted with static just because there are people without telephones.
FWIW.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
Yeah, I was going to say that I haven’t gotten mine as a gift (yet… hint? ;) ) but had to pay dearly. So having done that, I expect a lot in return. I’ve mostly grown my collection slowly and relatively painlessly, but a few large investments here and there (like when I went to 3.0 ). I’m glad to see they’ve got a payment plan now. I’ve suggested that several times over the years.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Greg,You’re right, I have noticed that the books on logos.com cost as much or more than the paper copies that i can get cheaper on Amazon!
I guess I thought that some of Bayly’s complaints were sorta petty.
I guess I thought that some of Bayly’s complaints were sorta petty.
I’ve found that I don’t really want non-reference books in digital form. But “non reference” is a bit murky. That is, usually, if I’m going to sit and read a book, I don’t want to do it on a screen. But if I’m going to search it for key words and quote extensively from it, Logos is fabulous for that. Given the value added of indexing and searching, they are worth more than the paper copies.
I don’t think I’ll ever be ready to give up the practice of slowly digesting a book on real paper and marking it all up. And some books just seem to be lacking if you can’t smell pulp while you’re reading them (… like Religious Affections for example… I’m more likely to have time to take it in via audio but it seems like the sort of volume that I want on old yellowed paper and a thick, heavy binding…. add large cup of hot tea and crackling fire. Seems to cry out for it.)
I don’t think I’ll ever be ready to give up the practice of slowly digesting a book on real paper and marking it all up. And some books just seem to be lacking if you can’t smell pulp while you’re reading them (… like Religious Affections for example… I’m more likely to have time to take it in via audio but it seems like the sort of volume that I want on old yellowed paper and a thick, heavy binding…. add large cup of hot tea and crackling fire. Seems to cry out for it.)
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
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