Steven Anderson & James White conversation

[Mark_Smith]

that calling a Christian minister of the gospel whom you disagree with as a “nut”. I think that violates the spirit and content of the comment policy. I am further alarmed that a moderator participated in this. I think you both should repent and not do that in the future.

Take some time to familiarize yourself with Anderson. He is no more a minister of the gospel than David Koresh was. He is a nut, a wolf in sheep’s clothing to use biblical parlance. I will assume you are simply not familiar with the man and his teachings before I call for you to repent for supporting a false teacher. Not everyone who claims to do works in Christ’s name is known personally by Him.

I wanted to pass this along to anyone who may have sympathy for or support Steven Anderson. He believes in a repentence-less Gospel. He believes in “faith alone,” and considers repentance a work. See this website for his views on this.

Regarding the discussion itself; White recorded the interview on mp3 and was not caught off guard when Anderson used only a short clip for his movie. Anderson promised White that, regardless of what he used in the movie, he would release the entire 2.5 hour discussion. Anderson was true to his word, and good for him.

I thought the discussion was helpful because it was a long, free-flowing and wide-ranging talk on an important subject. It wasn’t a structured debate, it was just an interview for a documentary. I completely disagree with Anderson, but I think the entire discussion will be very helpful to some people. I think Anderson is terribly wrong, but he is a smart man and he represented his own position as well as it could be done, I believe.

Jay:

Just watch a little of the video. I think you’ll find it very interesting. I have long had a fascination for the whole KJVO issue, because I came from a KJVO church. I also have the 3 hour John Ankerberg special on KJVO-ism from back in the 1990s, and have watched it several times.

Anderson says that Christ suffered in hell following His death on the cross because that is what he gets out of the KJV.

That is truly heresy and a rejection of the Biblical gospel.

….at Faithful Word Baptist Church. Not. :^)

Seriously, if the guy is going to take that phrase from 1 Kings 16:11 and turn it that way, that is Exhibit A for (a) why a pastor really ought to consider Bible College or seminary to learn basic exegesis and hermeneutics and (b) why modern Bible translations make sense for helping people whose exegetical abilities are weak.

And really, it’s got to be noted first of all that what we know as the KJV today is a really modernistic translation completed in 1769. If you want a traditional Bible of British Protestants, specifically the Puritans and Separatists, you must of course go with a real Bible, the Geneva Bibles of 1560 and 1599. None of this modernistic nonsense for me, nosirree.

Seriously, while I love the KJV (and the NKJV, and the NASB), the biggest weakness in the KJVO argument is that to accept it, you more or less have to ignore the basic rules of logic and textual exegesis. Hence you get crazy stuff like Jack Schaap polishing the shaft and Anderson really, really ticking off the janitorial staff. Abandon logic, you get nonsense. My favorite bit comes from David Sorenson, who notes (around page 120 of his book against the NKJV if I remember correctly) that he had in his possession a picture of Pr. Kurt Aland puffing on a cigar—as if that does anything to refute Aland’s work with the eclectic text of the NT.

And that is why any “debate” with the KJVO side must really center on their abuse of the rules of logic and evidence. Seize on the non sequiturs and adhominems and don’t let go—don’t let them filibuster, and show them no quarter.

You missed the best parts:

The editors of the New King James pee sitting down!

You better believe that everywhere I go, I’ll be standing up!

Don’t miss the numerology. Six times “p*** against the wall is mentioned” and six is the number of man. Who can argue with that kind of exposition?

As in Acts 5:5

Oblivious to readers before the inspired chapter and verse divisions.

Seems like you have to be brain dead to accept this guy’s logic … if not brain dead going in … you will be coming out

All I can say is that I’m thankful, for the sake of those listening to him, that Anderson did not make the obvious inference to Galatians 5:12 with that phrase. We could have another “Heaven’s Gate” on our hands.

I assume Anderson’s proof texts would demand finding a wall and not a urinal….or a tree.

Thanks for the video….I laughed so hard I almost didn’t make it to the wall.

The 2.5 hour video is really a serious conversation. Anderson’s antics aside, he is a serious and committed guy who argues passionately for his case in the linked discussion.

Just finished watching the 2.5 hour video. Tyler, thanks for recommending it. Anderson even appears to be level-headed and in his right mind until just a few minutes before the end when he tries to argue that the distinction between Hades and Gehenna is irrelevant after he had just explained that the context always clearly distinguishes between the two terms in the KJV. It’s interesting how blatantly he appeals to himself as the authority, even while he claims to submit to the authority of God’s word.

On the other hand, I was impressed with White’s ability to suffer Anderson’s nonsense for so long. I’m not sure I could have done that.

[Mark_Smith]

that calling a Christian minister of the gospel whom you disagree with as a “nut”. I think that violates the spirit and content of the comment policy. I am further alarmed that a moderator participated in this. I think you both should repent and not do that in the future.

Based on what he says on this website about salvation - I have to wonder whether or not he is a Christian. Repentance is a work that keeps you from getting saved? What?

I wonder how he handles Luke 3:7-9:

He said therefore to the crowds that came out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”

[Mark_Smith]

that calling a Christian minister of the gospel whom you disagree with as a “nut”. I think that violates the spirit and content of the comment policy. I am further alarmed that a moderator participated in this. I think you both should repent and not do that in the future.

What gospel are you talking about Mark? His 1-2-3 repeat after me gospel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT7w5EjixMU

If any of you on this forum think THAT is the gospel, then YOU are the ones in violation of the policy, because it’s not the gospel!

Jesus called Pharisee fools like him “white washed tombs, sons of the devil, vipers, fools, hypocrites, etc…” perhaps Jesus should repent too.

it is one thing to disagree with Anderson. You can do so very legitimately, as many of you have done. It is another thing to call a person a “certifiable nut”. That is what I was addressing.

Oh Mark, I was hoping you’d come back after you had a chance to investigate a little, but I didn’t expect you to double down. What is wrong with calling a spade a spade? Was Jesus too harsh when he called the pharisees graves, sons of Satan, and such? Anderson is a nut - as certainly as any cult leader is. He is a wolf, a false teacher, and a distorter of God’s Word. Those are ALL legitimate ways to identify the man, nut just takes fewer key strokes.