More on Ferguson and White Privilege

Nothing and no one “makes” people behave badly.

We have a generation that have been taught that in order to get what they want, all they have to do is scream, cry, and have temper tantrums. When they get older the tantrums often get replaced with violence. Societal injustice has been used to make one section of society feel guilty for being responsible for the negative actions of another section. For me it’s as old as the Watts Riots of the 60’s.

Jim brought up good thought when he said:

How is that contemporary African immigrants are able to come to America and thrive … but
3rd, 4th, 5th generation black Americans are so hindered?

I work with a number of these African immigrants and their stories are interesting. A couple of the men from Ghana came to the U.S. and tested grades ahead of their American born high school classmates. When I asked why, they said that in their home land, if you didn’t perform in school you were punished. If you continued to not apply yourself they sent you “off to the fields”.

I refuse to acknowledge my “white privilege” or my “smug arrogance”. I do acknowledge that I am a sinner saved by grace and that I am accountable to God and responsible for my behavior.

I would encourage you, William to use biblical terms to describe human conduct and attitudes.

William,

I grew up in a very poor home on the near south side of Chicago. I was born in the ghetto of the northside. We had nothing. My Dad was a city truck driver by day and a drunk by night. We never owned a home of any kind. Drove an old 57 Chevy. My father had a fourth grade education. My mother cleaned houses to help with food on the table. The white folks in my neighborhood at 24th and California were equally poor. Our poverty was no excuse for rioting, looting, robbing, drugs, violence, etc. You’ve got the President and the AG on the side of the victim in this case; you have 40 FBI agents investigating this case; you have a biased Media being hard on the police and soft of the thugs. Sounds like the privileges today are in the other direction.

• Yes he is colored … he gets the looks when he boards airlines


• His family (his father, mother, and 5 children) left Afghanistan with nothing but the clothes on their backs


• Were in a refugee camp in Pakistan then to Germany


• Now in the US.


• He speaks Pashtun, German, and English (his 3rd language that his heavily accented and he doesn’t get idioms)


• Father has 1 eye. Mother speaks no English (but wow can she cook!)


• Every kid has graduated from college in the US. One is a pharmacist, two have degrees in finance. One is applying to medical school.


• A success in one generation.


• How? Mom and Dad stuck together and worked hard. In menial jobs: motel cleaning staff … cook … etc


• They kept their kids out of trouble and in school

[WilliamD]

Let me say this clearly: “TO REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR WHITE PRIVILEGE WHILE PONTIFICATING ABOUT BLACK BEHAVIOR IS SMUG ARROGANCE”

Sounds like we are both talking past one another. However, the way you stated this above (or your quote below) is in itself a misframing of my original post (though maybe I erred in assuming your first post was even in answer to mine). Try saying this instead: “To refuse to acknowledge your white privilege while pontificating about *criminal* behavior is smug arrogance” and see if that makes as much sense. I’d be saying exactly the same things if those doing the looting and rioting were white, meaning, I’m leaving race out of this. I would argue that calling such behavior “black behavior” as if that in any way mitigates or explains it (even if you still think it’s wrong) is the real problem here. Note that my original post said nothing about peaceful protests or calls for justice, or stated that the eventual solution would not need some understanding of the different views of the parties involved.

In the original post, I said exactly this: “ To refuse to acknowledge your white privilege and to refuse to try see past it, is really smug arrogance and apathy.​:

I DID NOT SAY: “calling such actions wrong regardless of any possible racial context is either smug or arrogant.”

Right. Again, perhaps I wrongly assumed that your comment was in any way an answer to mine.

OK, I’ll bite — in case you were referring to my comment, in what way is what I stated in my original post (that white privilege is irrelevant to looting and rioting) in any sense “refusing to see past my white privilege?” If you weren’t answering me, just say so, and I’ll quit trying to apply your comments to mine.

So, once you get past your own pho outrage, you can start understanding what I really said.

Seeing as how I’m not outraged (though I strongly disagree with you), I don’t really think that “pho[ny] outrage” is my problem here. I’m just sick of the idea that the criminal behavior we are seeing in Ferguson (not peaceful protests) is explainable by understanding “white privilege.” I think Bert’s comment in the other thread is the much better explanation.

I have three “colored” nephews / niece (2nd marriage and blended family for my brother):

• 2 are sharp … one (no details) not (but in sum … poor life choices)
• 1 served in Army in Iraq war. Now a father of 3, a Christian, and a pharmacist’s assistant
• Niece is in the air force. Very sharp

I grew up in an ethnically-diverse community and went to public school where the student body was 65% African American, 33% Caucasian, and 2% other… What I remember from my friendships and discussions with my African American peers about black/white relations is this…

• The black community has historically been, and continues to be, disenfranchised, discriminated against, disproportionately under-educated, and criminally profiled by the existing financial, social, educational, and governmental power structures.
• Racism and discrimination are the root causes of most of the problems within the black community, particularly as it relates to the African American male.
• Because of slavery and the historical mistreatment of the black community, the black community is entitled to certain reparations and special considerations.
• African American men who date/marry other ethnicities (but particularly white women) are betraying their “blackness” and are hurting African American women.
• African Americans who don’t act/look/sound “black enough” are sellouts and Uncle Toms.
• African Americans who vote republican are sellouts and Uncle Toms.

I get the historical argument and can understand how a history of repression and discrimination would be harmful to a community, but I struggle with accepting the premise that I am therefore not responsible for my own actions and am now entitled to special treatment. Perhaps that is my “white privilege” showing…

William, regarding “white privilege”, I’ve actually seen clear evidence of people noting whites as thieves (just ask Asian shopkeepers) and the like. You come into a store wearing loose fitting clothing with lots of pockets out of season, and you will be profiled no matter what your race—especially if it’s seen as gang clothing. And if you’re obviously from out of town, the police will come up and visit, no matter what your race. Often, they’re trying to be helpful. Add to that accusations of “sleeping your way to the top”, getting one’s job because of Daddy or the old boy’s club, and you’ll find that a lot of what blacks complain about is not unknown to whites. The same 1960s laws that required real estate agents to show properties to any customer did as much to move Jews and Asians into nice neighborhoods as they did blacks, and you can also ask those of Irish or Italian descent whether they faced discrimination due to their appearance.

That said, discrimination of that type did not, as a whole, keep large portions of Jews, Italians, Irish, or for that matter blacks from Africa or the Caribbean down because these groups followed Walter WIlliams (black son of a single mother from the Philly projects, BTW) and his prescription for not being poor; graduate from high school, don’t commit crimes, get a job, and get married before you start procreating. For that matter, this was Booker T. Washington’s prescription as well—he would also add “buy land” and “learn a trade” as well.

In other words, while I acknowledge that racism exists today—I have been personally embarrassed by the behavior of people from my home town—I don’t think that it explains the persistent poverty of about a third of blacks today. Moreover, as I noted in the other thread, the assumption that it does is really mostly a way to shift blame for a homegrown problem to others, and therefore gets a lot of people killed.

“Faux” is French for fake. “Pho” are delicious Vietnamese noodles. So I’m pretty sure that William was speaking of “faux” outrage, unless he had a really, really bad experience at the noodle joint.

(sorry, William, just couldn’t resist, and enjoy your noodles!)

Victim mentality and Entitlement Mentality pervade American culture. That’s why we need immigrants. They don’t bring that baggage.

I appreciate my work friends from Palestine, Liberia, and Somalia. They don’t have it!

I have relatives with the victim / entitlement mentality. They are whiners. My middle son who served in the USMC and never has had either of these will chide these other relatives to take ownership for their own lives. You can’t change your circumstances but you can choose your responses.

[WilliamD]

Examples of white privilege for those of you who are privileged enough not to have to recognize your own privilege:

• My skin color does not work against me in terms of how people perceive my financial responsibility, style of dress, public speaking skills, or job performance.
• People do not assume that I got where I am professionally because of my race (or because of affirmative action programs).
• Store security personnel or law enforcement officers do not harass me, pull me over or follow me because of my race.

• When I am told about our national heritage or “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

• Related, the schools that I attend or have attended use standard textbooks, which widely reflect people of my color and their contributions to the world.
• When I look at the national currency or see photographs of monuments on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., I see people of my race widely represented and celebrated.

1. Neither does theirs most of the time.

2. Neither do they generally.

3. Neither do they generally.

4. They are racist if they want to deny history - that’s not privilege, just facts.

5. Again, they are racist if they want to deny history - that’s not privilege, just facts.

6. Again, they are racist if they want to deny facts that those people were historically significant and representative of the vast majority of Americans when they were placed in those prominent places.

William, none of this gives me an advantage or them a disadvantage. Sadly, as white America has become increasingly less racist, the black community has become increasingly more racist.

The problem with this line of thinking that “white” people need to just acknowledge their white privilege is that is myopic, one-dimensional and far too linear. I hope my experience will illustrate. I was born in a small rural town in the western state of Wyoming. If there was “white privilege” in that town, we knew nothing about it mostly because there were hardly any black people in that town. Therefore in my community, white’s had no more privilege over blacks. I left that town as a child and grew up in a little larger town that did have some black residents. But from a child, I was not taught (and I don’t recall ever having any of my friends or their families saying anything different) that a person is judged by their work ethic and diligence rather than their skin color. Now we did have a lot of what we called “loadies” in the town I grew up in. They were the teens who hung out at the city park smoking dope, wearing baggy clothes, with long scraggly hair. We were told to stay away from them. The “cowboys” in town spoke disparagingly about the loadies and fights would often break out. Whenever a loadie went into a store, they were eyed suspiciously, they were more likely to be pulled over by the cops than the cowboys. The cowboy kids would have parties and the cops would escort the underage drinkers home so that they would not get into trouble. The loadies however were hounded by the cops. So I grew up in a town that had cowboy privilege. But why? Because it was a western town and the cowboy kids were considered to be a better class than the loadies. And in a non-spiritual sense, they were. They were the ones who were more old-fashioned in their values. They worked hard jobs as kids on the family ranch, or some support vocations. But the thing is race meant nothing in all of it. Some of the cowboys were black (truly small number) and some of the loadies were black (very small number), but most everyone was white.

Funny as an adult I moved back to my little town I was born in for a few months and there was now a black family in that town. (about 4000 people), but guess what, she was voted in as mayor of our town. The only black family in a white/hispanic/indian town and she was the most notable public official.

I attribute this to a few things.

1. Western cultures have tended to focus less on race and even class than southern, eastern and midwestern, mostly due to nature of pioneer life. You tend to partner up with people you might not normally partner up with in a pioneer environment.

2. With little experience and emphasis with racism, we did not grow up with that on the top of our minds or an unhealthy preoccupation with it.

But my larger point is this, “white privilege” may exist in certain subcultures, but so does “hispanic privilege” and even “black privilege” exist in some subcultures and geographical areas. Why? it all depends on the culture dynamic, historical narrative, political choices, and so on. To monolithically say that all whites across the USA have privilege over all blacks across the USA is to have a naive and simplistic understanding of the size, scope and dynamics of such a large and varied country. This drives me bonkers. I believe that in a part of the country that has a racially charged historical narrative, and where there have been stereotypes (accurate or not) that have permeated the subculture, and where there seems to be a current pattern of racial tensions that there should be a call to introspectively consider whether we are compassionate about the needs of those who are not “like us.” But that does not mean that all communities and cultures function in the same fashion and thus attempt to induce guilt upon someone because they don’t get your culture. Chances are, you come to a small town in the West, and you are a white guy from Florida or South Carolina you are going to get some stares, some judgments, maybe even watched more closely in a store. But that is because we are so nuanced and varied in our subcultures in the USA. We need to get away from the race issue, love God and love our neighbors as ourselves.

I have certain advantages because I am white, but others have advantages because they are black. I have some advantages because I am tall, but others have advantages because they are short. I have advantages because I have most of my hair (for now). Others have the advantage of being bald and not having to comb their hair :). I am disadvantaged because I have some hearing loss, and I wear glasses. Others do not have these disadvantages. The point is that we are not all the same, but we do not hear too many short people attributing their failures to tall privilege. It is fine to acknowledge that certain aspects of who we are or where we came from can make life more challenging, but that should not become an excuse for bad choices or a reason to think we cannot succeed.

As an urban missionary, I’ve lived in the inner-city reaching out to mostly African-American youth and their families for over 20 years, Let me share a few examples of white privilege that I’ve seen with my own eyes. By the way, I agree to a certain extent with Matthew that white privilege isn’t so linear or cut and dry. In certain smaller contexts, the situation can be reversed. For instance, for a few of my poor white students that grew up going to an all-black high school, there were situations where because they were the minority, they did not enjoy the same privilege that their African-American fellow students enjoyed.

How often are you followed in a mall, a grocery store, or a convenient store by security or shop owners? If you say never or almost never, you are enjoying white privilege. Most of my black teens and young adults state that it happens on a monthly basis. I’ve seen it happen on three occasions. Twice, when the store owner saw that I (the white guy) was with them, they stopped following them and judged them to be ok. Furthermore, the example that Chandler gives about black fathers teaching their children how to walk with their hands out of their pockets in a convenient store so that they are not targeted is a fact of life among the people that I serve.

How often have you been pulled over and/or searched for drugs by the police? (Have you been racially profiled) If you say never, you probably are enjoying white privilege. A couple years ago, I arranged for one of the young men that I disciple named Davien to give his testimony at a missions conference in a city about 30 minutes from Grand Rapids. On our way back to our city, a county sheriff pulled us over and frisked my student for drugs. He had no cause to pull us over (he said that I had a tail light out, but it was working fine) He got suspicious seeing a middle-aged white man and a 20 something black man riding together in my mini-van. By the questions he asked, he assumed that Davien was the drug dealer and I was the white, bald-headed drug fiend hanging around the drug dealer. It completely shocked him when Davien told him that he just gave his testimony at a missions conference.

Joel

Understood the experience, and I understand that there are cases where people wrongly assume that people of race/ethnicity A are up to no good, but my experience is that if I’m in anything but a convenience/grocery store, and no salesman comes up to me to ask if I can help them, that store is not interested in my business. They are there, after all, to help customers, no? And so I wonder if the big issue with “being followed” is that the salesman are a bit intimidated at serving black customers—inexperience and not necessarily bigotry—while the black customer may be assuming that the salesman coming to say hi and ask him what he needs is actually a “loss prevention” worker.

It might be worth an experiment; tell the young men you’re working with to, when they’re followed by someone they think is a loss prevention officer, to simply turn around, smile, and greet the person. Maybe even ask where they can find a product they’re needing.

Regarding the drug search, upon reflection, I’m surprised I was never stopped when I drove my rusty old Buick with Indiana plates into Compton each Saturday morning on my way to minister to people there. The good side is that the only thing they’d find there would be caffeine, I guess. :^)