What's a Pastor to Do?

[James K]

It honestly isn’t that hard Jim. Who does the scripture say can be an elder?

The idea that God couldn’t foresee such an issue and make sure it could be covered apart from the foolishness of man is rather silly to me. You are free to believe as you wish Jim.

[Aaron Blumer]

Some good practical stuff here.

I’ve personally seen both of the discussion-encouraging methods KB describes here work quite well. The idea of separating discussion from decision making is huge. I wish I could say I thought to do it in order to improve the quality of discussion, but at the time it was mostly motivated by the need to shorten the annual meeting. So, not every year, but a couple of times we had a budget discussion time a week before the annual meeting. In retrospect, would have been a great idea to do this with the entire agenda every year and sometimes for the quarterly and ad hoc meetings as well.

Permission to talk about it: also huge. One of the things that fuels church division the most is the conspiratorial urge. There’s a side to human nature that finds the idea of plotting an overthrow exciting. Add in some disgruntled members and you’ve soon got a righteous-sounding revolt movement going on. A great way to diffuse that early is to make all conspiracies “open” ones and part of the official decision making process. … it has a way of focusing the chatter on the real goal: making a good decision.

These are definitely good ideas. I don’t recall ever seeing them done in any church of which I have been a part, but I think I will have to begin trying them out in my own church.

[James K] I will explain how things work within my church: The elders regularly meet with just each other and also with the church to go over the affairs of the church, the speaking schedule, the finances, maintenance, outreach ideas, sermon series, etc. At any time during the meeting or ANY OTHER TIME a person is free and welcome to bring up a matter. This can’t be stressed enough. There is a simplicity in simple obedience to Christ.

My church does the exact same thing. Yet in another thread, you said that my church was using a man made invention and was borderline heterodox. So what’s the difference, other than the elders and deacons report on their activity at the quarterly business meetings?

Jay, I have been on vacation and tried to avoid all things internet. I am finally home. I wasn’t ignoring the question.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in your church’s scenario, the leadership are subject to the church’s authority. In my scenario, the reverse is true. You believe the church has final authority. I believe the elders do.

When Paul discusses the qualifications of an elder, he says that he must be able to manage his family well or he won’t do a good job doing the same to the church. As previously stated, I believe in a plurality, so collectively they must manage well. Why did Paul use that analogy for the elder if he really wasn’t in a role comparable to a manager? In contrast, Kevin has presented the scenario of pastors who preach/teach within the lines the church tells them to. When Paul spoke of that, he condemns the itching ears.

Any pastor who refused to engage and discuss all matters with the assembly is not doing his job in my viewpoint. So those who claim I am advocating a dictatorial approach have limited categories that could use some creativity to figure this out. In many ways, this is what makes Kevin’s posts so disappointing. Despite a good education and apparently a deep knowledge of other views, he has gone out of his way to portray the worst concepts of what he disagrees with. Poisoning the well is what other people do I suppose.