Gluttony: The Socially Acceptable Sin

If you knew someone in your church who was smoking marijuana, would you try to get him to stop? Would you view it as a sin? And why?

I bet you anything that the reasons you would give him for giving up smoking, are the same reasons for why one should watch what they eat and exercise regularly.

[christian cerna]

…

I bet you anything that the reasons you would give him for giving up smoking, are the same reasons for why one should watch what they eat and exercise regularly.

I bet you’d be wrong! :)

[pvawter]

dgszweda wrote:

This is why I specifically said that overweight is subjective. In addition, while you may not agree with something like the BMI standard, it is far from arbitrary. No matter where you draw the line, weight does have a direct relation to the issue of gluttony. If you are overweight, you are practicing some form of gluttony. But that doesn’t mean that only those overweight are gluttonous either.

So, are you saying that gluttony is entirely subjective?
My point in even entering this discussion is that the conclusion that overweight people must be gluttons and are therefore sinful is overly simplistic and not Biblical. If we are going to discuss sin, then by all means, let’s discuss sin, but bodyweight and BMI do not factor in to whether or not a person’s behavior is sinful. Weight as a means of defining gluttony (and presumably therefore, sin) is not a Biblically defensible category, so suggesting that a person who carries around extra pounds (whatever that means, since the concepts of ideal weight and overweight are subjective) is ipso facto sinning is a faulty conclusion.

To some degree that is what I am saying. Drunkeness is subjective as well. It is proven that even one small drink begins to have some element of physiological impact. Even the alcohol content in Nyquil does. Some States indicate drunk as being .08, some lower and some higher. It is subjective, but we all know what it looks like. Gluttony does not produce an overweight person, but an overweight person at some point verges into gluttony, because at the end of the day you have consumed more calories than your body requires. You are eating to satisfy yourself and not because of a physical need. Is it 5lbs overweight? 10lbs? I don’t know, but we all know what it looks like. Just as stated above, is drunkeness one drink? two drinks? the legal limit for the State in which you are drinking?

I am not saying that a person over 5lbs is overweight, nor is it sin. This is an individual assessment, but again we all know what overweight or what drunkeness is already.

[dgszweda]

…

I am not saying that a person over 5lbs is overweight, nor is it sin. This is an individual assessment, but again we all know what overweight or what drunkeness is already.

Overweight and drunkenness are not equals. Not even close. When Scripture indicates that you lose your moral inhibitions and incline towards perverseness when under the influence of calories I may entertain second thoughts.

Bothersome facts: Scripture says NOTHING about ideal weight or BMI and nowhere equates fat with gluttony! Purely man-made constructs.

It is interesting to me that the enemies of Christ accused him and his disciples of being wine bibbers, gluttons, and even demon possessed. What was the basis for this foolish accusation? I seriously doubt if Christ or the twelve were overweight. Gluttony was often associated with drunkenness and the godless, unregenerate accusers were endeavoring to tag Christ with both. Their false accusations had nothing to do with physical appearance. It was the idea of gorging oneself similar to the events at Belshazzar’s feast or the drunkards at the Lord’s table in 1 Corinthians 11. Paul said that bodily exercise profited little in comparison to godliness. Men like Spurgeon and Moody were hefty men. I don’t think they were working out at the gym everyday. They gave themselves to the ministry in every way possible. I don’t think it would be right in accusing them of being undisciplined gluttons. Frankly, our children and adults have too much screen time and not enough activity. Also, they don’ eat the best foods. That is a social problem that should be addressed, but I don’t think it carries the biblical concept of gluttony where people are allowing all of their physical appetites to rule their life. People afflicted with anorexia and/or bulimia (a favorite Roman past time) may be dealing with a much more serious problem than someone who isn’t a candidate for Sport’s Illustrated magazine. I would hardly commend the self-centered, self-absorbed mind-set where moderns spend most of their free time sculpting their bodies for public exhibition, whether it be in Hollywood Showbiz, the modeling industry, or the proverbial body trainer trying to become the next contestant on the Bachelor.

I think you are wrong. Gluttony may not be mentioned in the Bible as much as drunkenness, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist, or isn’t a sin. There are many people in this country who are gluttonous. It can be the child who eats mostly junk food and spends 6 hours a day playing video games. It can be the office worker sitting at his cubicle munching on candy and chips, and drinking energy drinks all day, instead of preparing himself a healthy lunch.

I am not saying that all overweight people are gluttonous, but obese people who don’t make an effort to limit their diet and try to exercise are gluttonous.

I am not saying we should all look like athletes or models. But we should make an effort to care for our bodies. God designed our bodies in such a way, that they tell us when something is not right. They give us signs and symptoms of an unhealthy lifestyle. Our eyes can tell us when someone is in good health, or when someone is in poor health. When we see a 25 year old woman who has the body of a 50 year old, or a man who weighs 400 hundred pounds and needs a scooter in order to do his grocery shopping, then we can see that something is obviously very wrong.

And as I asked before, can anyone of you mention a scripture that prohibits smoking? There is not one single passage in the Bible that prohibits it. So why do you think smoking a cigarrete is wrong? Is it really? It may not be wise. But it definitely isn’t morally wrong.

[christian cerna]

…

And as I asked before, can anyone of you mention a scripture that prohibits smoking? There is not one single passage in the Bible that prohibits it. So why do you think smoking a cigarrete is wrong? Is it really? It may not be wise. But it definitely isn’t morally wrong.

Nicotine (smoking) is wrong for the believer because its defining properties determine it to be both physically and mentally addictive, a characteristic that intrinsically sets it at odds with the Holy Spirit producing the good fruit of temperance in the life of the believer. IOW, smoking is inherently antagonistic to the work of the Holy Spirit.

For some people caffeine is also mentally and physically addictive, as are junk food and soda. In fact, many people are fat, because they cannot say no to those things. Are those also wrong?

[christian cerna]

For some people caffeine is also mentally and physically addictive, as are junk food and soda. In fact, many people are fat, because they cannot say no to those things. Are those also wrong?

Anything can be addictive (watch “My Strange Addiction” sometime on TLC). Nicotine from smoking, unlike caffeine and other things, is intrinsically addictive—its very nature is to create physical and psychological dependency. Huge difference.

It’s always a good idea on a topic of controversy to go back and assemble the biblical facts—assuming our commitment is to take a biblical view on the topic. Re-examining tends to either strengthen our take on things or nuance it or move it entirely to the “Hmm…. this needs more study” file.

What we find in Scripture.

”Gluttony”

• In the English Bible, the word “gluttony” occurs once in NIV (84 and 2011), TNIV, and The Message, twice in NLT.
• NIV family: Proverbs 23:2
• NLT: Num. 11:34, Ezek. 16:49
• The Message has it only in Matt. 23:25
• (There are lots of references in English versions of the Greek OT (septuagint/lxx) and apocryphal books)

Translations and Hebrew

• It’s insightful to look alternate translations
• In NIV’s “gluttony” in Prov. 23:2 (“put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony”) ​KJV, NKJV, ESV, NET, NASB95 all went with “appetite.”
• The Hebrew (NET’s footnote is helpful) is actually a phrase ba’al nephesh, an interesting expression all by itself.
• The phrase is literally something like “lord of the appetite.” Nephesh is most commonly the word for soul, but in various contexts takes on the idea of appetite or desire. So you have a figure of speech that, in context, means something like “if you have a whopper of an appetite.”
• As I pointed out in an earlier post, the focus is on what you desire and how you indulge, not a physical outcome.

​Other references to “gluttony”

• The Message’s rendering in Matt. 23:25 is, surprisingly, not completely unfounded. The word is akrasia, a general term for self-indulgence. But you do have references to cup and plate in the immediate context. It’s at least plausible that appetite for food is what Jesus mainly had in mind (especially since He pairs it with “greed”).
• NLT’s Num. 11:34 rendering is plausible as well. It’s a brief aside to explain a place-name, Kibroth-hattaavah. The place is named after the Israelites’ quail-eating orgy. Note…

1. The term is again not food specific. The place name means “the grave of the ones who craved”
2. There was no time for the Israelites to become overweight. The “gluttony” is a combination of inordinate desire and unrestrained indulgence.

• NLT’s Ezek. 16:49 is curious. “Gluttony” occurs there in a list of Sodom’s sins. The word, sibah, apparently occurs in this form only here in the OT. TWOT has interesting info on the term and its close cousins. Saba means plenty. In the context, the point appears to be that they had a great deal but were forcing many around them to starve. There is no reference to body weight or size.

“Glutton,” “gluttons” and “gluttonous men/people”

• These terms occur more frequently in English Bibles
• NKJV, ESV, NASB, NRSV 14 times
• KJV 8 times
• NIV2011, NET, HCSB 12
• NIV84, TNIV, NLT 10
• No time for exhaustive study right now, but a few observations
• The terms are quite often paired with drunkard
• In a few places, the terms are connected with lazyness
• In zero occurrences the terms are connected with fatness
• Zero occurrences relate the terms to concerns about physical health

It’s a point of fact that English Bibles do not associate “gluttony” with being overweight or fat, etc, or any condition of the body at all. These terms consistently apply to appetite and indulgence.

A necessary inference: whether the idea of “fat” or more modern ideas like “overweight” or “obese” are subjective or not is not relevant to understanding gluttony biblically.

To say it another way, the “sin of gluttony” is not related to fatness in the Bible.

Christian,

First of all, let me give a huge Amen to Aaron’s previous post. Couldn’t agree with it more. Is it wrong for purely recreational purposes and in moderation (assuming it’s legal) to smoke marijuana, snort Cocaine, inject Heroin, pop meth pills, smoke opium, (“God Gave Poppy Seeds”—new book idea) or take LSD?

I essentially agree with your negative assessment of where young people are today in not exercising, having too much Screen time, eating junk foods, living on high powered sugared and fortified caffeine drinks. Where that occurs to the level of a lifestyle of laziness and self indulgence it is sinful. I raised all my children to be excellent musicians, godly mates, disciplined students, and physically fit. So I do share your concerns.